North Florida is a pretty strong traditional regional local power.

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You know me like that.

It's because with the weather they can play basketball year round there I think.

Yeah, I'm done with Groce now too.

He's had a lot of bad luck for sure. But he just can't get guys in there to play.

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You know me like that.

Well your two years are up.....Groce will be an assistant at Mid Major

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Can't argue. I thought he'd be better.

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You know me like that.

What are the chances that the Illini will hire someone better as his replacement?

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Slim. I guess the could get lucky. They should never have fired Weber.

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Don't take it personally.

carpetbagger Leito will rejuvenate DePaul then walk to the Illini

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Well, I think he may be available shortly if the Illini are interested. A second Weber tenure would be Noisewater's dream come true!

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Wish they would bring Lon Kreuger back.

I'm rooting for the return of Lou Henson!

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You don't really believe this do you, Joe? I'm not one of these delusional Illini fans who thinks the place is a basketball school that should always get top recruits but even I could see it was time for Weber to move on. The guy won 1 single NCAA tournament game with his own players. Now that Frank Martin's guys are gone from KSU he's shitting the bed in Manhattan. Not saying Groce was an upgrade but Weber had his chances.

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Back off, Warchild. Seriously.

I think the problem with Weber was that he was pressured to recruit guys that he didn't really want. Richmond is, of course, the poster boy for that. If he would have just been allowed to go after guys who fit his style and system, I think the Illini would have been fine with him. And Weber would have stayed forever and done as much as it's possible to do in Champaign- compete for the Big Ten title almost every year, win one once in awhile and make the final 16 quite a bit- sort of like what Fitz is doing with the football team in Evanston.

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Don't take it personally.

Illini fans have a weird obsession with "recruiting Chicago". Just because Illinois happened to be your dream school for Education doesn't mean that 5 star recruits feel the same way.

They'd be better off avoiding it and only targeting guys that really have a good connection to Illinois. Otherwise, you are just setting yourself up to get the leftovers after Coach K and Calipari decide who they want.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

That's my point. I think Weber was definitely pressed by boosters to go after these players he didn't necessarily want.

And Groce really fucked up with Brunson, who looked like he was ready to sign before Groce ignored him to chase other goofs that were never coming.

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Don't take it personally.

I dunno, Joe, Weber wasn't doing all that well after Self's recruits left and before Richmond came. And his Kansas State team has regressed each year he's been there, too. I don't think Weber would've been the solution to the Illini's basketball problems.

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They have been avoiding it in a manner of speaking. The last top Chicago area player to sign with Illinois was Dee Brown.

Chicago is important but they also have to recruit players from other states too. I agree with that.

The problem with Illinois has been in their coaching hires. They keep hiring mid major guys and hoping that they are going to be big time.

Cuonzo Martin should have been hired as the coach. No brainer move. He has signed 2-3 McDonald's guys in little over a yr at Cal. He is an Illinois guy that has had some success at both the mid major and Major college level.

The best players out of Chicago don't even consider Illinois anymore. They don't even visit the campus. I don't know how much they have targeted Chicago to be quite honest.

I do know that the Brunson signing hurt. They believed they had him. They got in on his recruitment late. He was identified as can't miss during his Sophomore yr. and they didn't get involved until late in his junior yr.

They received a verbal from the Snyder kid and he ended up signing with Louisville at the last minute. His verbal commitment caused the coaching staff to not recruit Brunson.

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I do think the state school should be able to pull the top guys in the state, or at the very least be a serious consideration for most of them. And the way the game is set up today, I'm not gonna complain about losing a one-and-done guy to Calipari and his finishing school for the NBA, but Self shouldn't be able to come in here from Kansas and out-recruit Illinois with regularity.

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Don't take it personally.

Although not technically a "Chicago" recruit I would argue that Brandon Paul was a pretty good player for them, although he was never built to necessarily be
the main man on a team and didn't have a lot of help when he was there.

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Flew too close to the sun on wings of pastrami

He was a solid player but not the best in that particular class. His stock also dropped a little as he matriculated through high school. He was a good player though.

Illinois needs NBA caliber guys and they have not been able to get them. Maybe not necessarily one and dones though that is not bad if you can consistently get them. Four year guys are not bad but they have to be of NBA caliber. You are not going to win without that level of talent in your program.

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Are you sure about that? They had 2 in 2013, 4 in 2011, and the infamous 2010 class which had 3 guys from the suburbs.
That timing wouldn't have worked. He was only 1 year into his job at Tennessee.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

But a school like Kansas has greater visibility in the Chicago area than Illinois does. So why would you expect high school kids to prefer U of I over Kansas?

U of I has no clue how to market itself--and that's part of the school's leadership crisis that is undermining it at every level (strategic planning, fundraising, research, recruiting, branding, athletics, etc).

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This new regime has only signed guys that played at Simeon. They really are not recruiting Chicago actively. Emphasis on Chicago kids is not their problem. They can't sign blue chippers. It doesn't matter which state their from. They have 2 McDonald's All Americans in the 15 years. (Brown and Richmond). Jaylen Tate is not a Big Ten player.

They also have had two NBA players back out of Commitments in the past 10-12 years. The team they had last year only started one guy that was a top 50 player coming out of high school. You are not going to win without talent.

Parker, Davis, Okafor, Rose, did not even consider Illinois. You are not going to win if your best players are leaving every yr. Each of these guys was a No. 1 Player coming out of high school. The guys they sign from out of state haven't been good either. Deron Williams is the best player that they have signed from out of state in possibly 25 years. I cant think of another one that was even remotely good. I'm sure they have but I cant think of one.

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I'm going to flat out say that you are wrong. They are recruiting Chicago. The numbers here do not lie. It's like 50% of their recent recruiting coming from Chicago or the suburbs.

The point is that they can't get the blue chips from Chicago. Most other Big Ten schools understand this and build their programs accordingly.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't know what you consider the Suburbs to be. Aaron Jordan is from Plainfield. D.J. Williams is the only guy they signed this year from Chicago.

Whom did they sign last year from Chicago?

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Mike Davis was a good player out of Virginia but he was a bit of a surprise.

Cory Bradford was from Tennessee. The pickens are definitely slim.

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You know me like that.

2015: 1/4, 2/4 if you count Plainfield as a suburb
2014: 0/2
2013: 2/5
2012: 1/1
2011: 4/6
2010: 2/3

So, that is 10/21 or 11/21.

That is them not recruiting from Chicago?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I forgot those two. They were good players.

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The only four players that they currently have on their roster that were signed out of High School are

Nunn, Tate,
Abrams, and Williams. Some of the other guys were walk ons.


The classes that really screwed them were the Richmond classes and the Henry Classes. They didn't get much out of those classes.

For the record Groce has attempted to recruit out of state guys. They have placed more emphasis on that than they have Chicago. They only have one guy recruiting Chicago. His other assistants are from out of town. They handle out of state recruiting.

You can say I'm wrong but I'm familiar with their program.

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The only way Illinois is big again is to get a coach that can convince three kids near the top of the talent ladder to come all together. Kids that want to be trailblazers and not venture far from home.

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If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.