Solid counterpoint. I can't argue that.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I cannot point to a single thing I said that would indicate I'm upset, but I suppose I'll have a bourbon anyway.

_________________

I just always assume you're on edge.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What about Hoyer? Stat ass!

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Ideally, they'll find a team willing to give up a mid round draft pick, and the Bears will suck next year.

After all, Beardown has pointed out how the WR's are bad. The offensive line is bad. They are probably going to lose Forte. Cutler will be 33 next season.

This lets the Bears work on the future in a productive manner.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

33 isn't really old for a QB. Cutler's got at least 5 more average years left in him.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Cutler apologist are mouth breathers

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

That's not true. Although, in Jay's defense, at least he enjoys having sex with said girl presumably.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Put down the koolaid and step away from the keyboard. The sooner the Bears move on from Cutler the better. Jay wont be the Bears QB when they are a playoff team again.

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CSFMB 2014 Nascar Pick 'em Champion

We don’t have a trillion-dollar debt because we haven’t taxed enough; we have a trillion-dollar debt because we spend too much. — Ronald Reagan

I'd LOVE to trade Jay to Cleveland for a 3rd round pick, it could be done in the off season.

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Munn is more attractive IMO, But its close . factor in the No Vaccine stuff and crazy brother who just killed himself(bad genes) gotta go with O.M.

_________________

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

One problem with this line of thought is that very few quarterbacks are being paid based on their production, a trend in part started by the Bears with their last ridiculous contract to Cutler. For instance this offseason we'll see Washington hitch their wagon for the next few years to Fool's Gold Cousins and do everything to keep him from hitting free agency and the Jets offer a boatload to Fitzpatrick. I'm quite ready to be done with Cutler but it feels like extending/overpaying at that position is almost the default move at this point.

Cutler is making 16 million next year, he's not a bargain..its just the numbness has set in from the initial ass banging of 23 and 22 million a year already..its still hurts just not as bad. Couldn't move him last year or this year ..MAYBE you sucker in The Browns and get em to take him for a 3rd or 4th round pick this off season..even that I doubt.

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It's generally not a good idea to use the Redskins and Jets doing the same thing as evidence your team is doing the right thing.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I don't see the Jets getting crazy and paying Fitz huge money, He's solid..I'd take him over Cutler and He will make less than Jay. Cousins isn't fools gold, he's better than Jay too and 5 years younger.

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Except I neither think the Bears are "doing the right thing" nor do I think this is something limited to the Jets, Redskins, and Bears. The former two teams will merely be the latest in a line of franchises to offer mediocre quarterbacks bad contracts. I know your team has one of the few good QBs in the league but the point I was making is merely that the market is significantly distorted at the moment.

I can very easily see the Jets doing so and if they won't another team will overpay for him. Cousins is extremely mediocre and like the Jay situation has largely been playing in a dumbed down offense since midseasons to limit turnovers and with most of his success coming against bad teams. If I was a fan of another NFC East team, I'd be bummed about missing the playoffs when the division was so weak this year but happy that Washington's championship will guarantee that they're stuck with the Gruden/Cousins combo for at least a few more years.

And it always will be. In fact, the market for any free agent in pretty much any sport is that way. It's a necessary evil if you happen to be a team who doesn't draft well. There's no way that the amount paid for free agents in football over the past couple decades equates to "good money" in terms of the wins they've added, relative to players that were drafted.

That said, I disagree completely with the way most quarterbacks are paid. There are maybe 3 QB's who make you a contender every year. If you don't have one of those QB's, I believe you should go with a league minimum guy and use the cap space on everything else because the difference between the 20th QB and the 8th QB is not that significant but the pay is.

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I think that's probably going too far in the other direction as well though. If you have the 8th best QB in the league, you have a guy like Romo or Ryan. You want to keep that guy. If you have the 15th best QB in the league, then I agree that there's no reason to overpay to keep from downgrading to the 20th.


I guess I don't get your point, Zeph. I agree that teams overpay for mediocre QBs. You seem to agree that this is not very smart. So... the conclusion would be to not do it. Eli winning the SB in 2011 is the only time I can recall a team resigning a mediocre QB and it actually paying off. It's better to let the guy go and keep starting over until you get that top 3-5 guy that leash mentioned.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I don't. I'd rather have Teddy Bridgewater +20mil in cap space than Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco. Odds are the team would be better, and we don't prohibit ourselves from finding the next Aaron Rodgers or Andrew Luck because we are married to Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco.

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Would you rather have Josh McCown or Brian Hoyer and that cap space than Matt Ryan or Tony Romo? Odds are you are going to draft a guy worse than Bridgewater multiple times before drafting one as good or better. And I don't even think Bridgewater is very good.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Romo's a bad example for me because I like him more than most and would consider him to be top 5 when healthy.

I'd take Mccown/Hoyer and the cap space over Ryan because you're not winning a SB with either scenario, but your future odds are much better with Hoyer/McCown.

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If Romo is a top 5 guy, then you should expand your criteria to include top 7-8 regardless. If you have Romo at 5 you have a guy like Carson Palmer, Russell Wilson, or Big Ben at 7-8ish. If I get one of those QBs this year and you have Brian Hoyer, my team is better than yours, regardless of the rest of the roster.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I don't know about this anymore. I used to be in the find a superstar camp but now I think I wouldn't mind tying myself down to Flacco or Ryan because I know I can win with them. You can win with Ryan or Flacco if you've got a well-rounded team; they won't elevate a poor supporting cast like Brady or Rodgers can, but if you're healthy and generally talented, I can see you winning with those guys. Of course Flacco has already won and I don't think it's implausible to see Ryan winning if they get better on offense and defense.

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2013 CSFMB ROY

I think your second paragraph undermines your first in terms of how unique the current situation is. There were always bad contracts but I think starting with the Flacco, Stafford, Cutler, and Dalton deals you have an identifiable trend for quarterbacks specifically. Free agency may always guarantee a good deal of guys getting overpaid regardless of sport, but at this point it feels like teams are almost bidding against themselves to secure the rights of largely average quarterbacks.


If I was a Falcons or Cowboys fan I'd rather not be stuck with those guys much longer. Ryan and the Falcons are about done, and Jerruh's going to delude himself that a healthy Romo would've had them right in the hunt this year when it's clear they have a number of other pressing needs.

The point was that it's something I begrudgingly accept with since it seems to be a flaw in nearly every team's decisionmaking. It's the same way I feel about the majority of coaches being idiots regarding fourth downs and field goals; I hate it but I'm not getting super worked up over it, especially more so in this case since the market is in large part shaped by what the other 29 teams are doing.

The number is tough at this particular point in time because the QB landscape is changing with Manning and Brees reaching the end. Palmer was once left for dead but is now good, but his team is better because his cap hit is 18th among QB's (the ideal situation).

I'd have no problem expanding to 6 or 7 QB's, I suppose, but the philosophy is the same. Middle-tier QBs are very overpaid when you can get bottom tier QB's with a good chance of putting up similar numbers with similar talent.

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Like vegan said though, if you have Flacco or Matt Ryan, you at least have a small chance of winning the SB, if everything else goes right. If you build a team like you're describing, you will never have even a small chance to win a SB until you get that top 5 QB, which could very well be never.

I think you just have to look at it on a case by case basis. I would never want Andy Dalton on my team. I don't think he is actually capable of putting up an Eli/Flacco-esque run. Same with Cutler. I think Matt Ryan could. I'm positive Tony Romo could. I don't think Stafford or Alex Smith can. If you have a guy that you don't think can play great for 3-4 games in a row against top competition, you ditch him and just start over. If you think you have that guy, then I think you pay him what you need to in order to keep him and try to be smart when building the rest of the roster.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I can. Bears fans.

The thing is that even when compared to them that Cutler is much worse. Besides RGIII, the other quarterbacks are either elite, have been elite at times, or won a Super Bowl. We can argue about the Flacco/Eli contracts, but they won rings right around the time of negotiation.

I also doubt that Cousins or Fitzpatrick get anything close to what Culter got in terms of money and number of years. Just like Kaepernick and Dalton got deals that were significantly better for the team than what the Bears got.

It's still a major anchor to have a quarterback who ranks in the 15-20 range who is a top 10 salary cap hit in a salary cap hit league.

Don't get me wrong either. I'm not blaming Cutler for taking the money. I would if I was him too.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!