veganfan21 wrote:
I guarantee you can't find anyone who would fault Thibs for losing to Philly in 2012 after Rose went down. Noah also went down during that same series. Here are your own thoughts from more than three months ago in which you make the point but concede it isn't such an important occurrence in the grand scheme of things. Yet in Rubio-like fashion you insist on repeating it as if the loss calls into question Thibs' entire body of work. You can be anti-Thibs, whatever, but you're going to be called out whenever you work backwards from that initial premise because no one is going to let fallacies slip by, and working backwards from a premise means you're going to make all sorts logically inconsistent points. Conceding a point doesn't mean you've lost the entire argument.
long time guy wrote:
I wasn't critical at the time for losing to Philly. Their season was done the second Rose went down. I'm speaking from a champion level perspective. They should have been able to get past Philly though.
I really only began to sour on Thibs this past yr. I began to sour on him because I realized how inflexible he was as a coach. He has certain tenets that he abides by which hinders him as a coach. The minutes thing didn't bother me because these are professional athletes, some of the best in the world.
I started souring on him when I realized that he was not good at developing young players, particularly rookies. I never thought for one second that McDermott would play a significant role. Injury or no injury he was not a Thibs kind of player. The same goes for Mirotic. Mirotic only began playing regularly once Taj was injured. Snell only began playing once his regulars became injured.
The Bulls underperformed last yr. Think about this for a minute. How many people on here could have predicted that Butler and Gasoline were going to turn in the seasons that they had last year? The Bulls were predicted to win between 55-60 games last yr without knowing that either of them would perform as they did. Some of that was predicated on Rose performing as an All Star, I 'll grant you, but their record should have been better given the seasons those two turned in
Thibs has to own some of that.
long time guy wrote:
Shouldn't they have been able to beat Philly without Rose? It's true they would have been toast in the second round, but they should have got out of the first. They secured a #1 seed with Rose missing 40% of the season. The Rose injury gave Thibs a pass. They also should have defeated Cleveland this yr. The other yrs they were definitely outclassed by the Heat. I had no problem with those defeats. Washington was better also.
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=96406&p=2327210&hilit=philly#p2327210I have brought it up several times and no one has bothered to address it because it has validity. That is quite obvious. At the time I didn't question Thibs either. I probably will give him a pass now also. I'm just wondering why isn't that same courtesy being extended to Hoiberg? Hoiberg has been without 3 of his top 7 guys for awhile now.
You can reference mine as an anti- Thibs bias but isn't there an anti Hoiberg bias at work here. The Bulls were without Rose for 27 out of 66 games that year and still secured the #1 seed. Its obvious they could win without Rose. Why couldn't they do it against a mediocre teams if Thibs is the motivator and great coach that everyone professes him to be?
As far as agreeing with what I posted or disagreeing with others are posting I don't really expect it too much nor do I seek it. I can't base my opinions on that. There is definitely validity to it whether members admit it or not.
Hoiberg is being dealt a bad hand here. He may not be a good coach. I have my doubts but I'm not using this current stretch as a gauge of his coaching ability. It wasn't too long ago that he was 10 games over .500. Some of the same people that consider him a terrible coach now were calling him that then as well. Where was their objectivity? Was it being called into question? nope it wasn't. They were supporting their previously held argument and it went largely unchallenged because most on here are Pro-Thibs. The Fire Hoiberg thread was pretty active during that period also.
If this doesn't work out then everyone needs to go. I'm willing to give Hoiberg to the end of next season. If they are still flailing along then he, Paxson, and Forman need to disappear.
_________________
The Hawk wrote:
This is going to reach a head pretty soon.
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