my argument was never about him as a GM. I love the way it got spinned. My argument was about his ability to assess talent. The Knicks were terrible when he got there so I'm really wondering how he "destroyed" them. That is lost in all of this. I'm saying that the guy can tell if a guy can play or not. His drafting record strongly suggests that he knows how to assess talent. I found support for that too. As a talent evaluator, he is good.

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did you not read the link Douchebag posted ?

I do not think it is ideal to present an argument that someone is a good at evaluating talent and then get upset when people bring up that person's record as a GM to be like well maybe he is really not adept at evaluating talent after all.

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I had to go back two pages to find this, but taking Boogie over Davis is SUCH an Isiah Thomas move. Isiah seems to think that since he played on a team that was full of talented assholes that happened to win that you can replicate that success with any other assholes. Boogie is a talented dude, but a pain in the ass and Anthony Davis seems to be much less of a pain in the ass while having the bonus of being an even more talented basketball player

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Pick a motherfucking lane, man.

No, as a talent evaluator, he is bad. It's why he is one of the worst GMs ever. It's why he signed Jerome James and Jared Jeffries to large deals, and traded away several picks for fucking Eddy Curry. The Knicks weren't awful when he got there either. They were run of the mill bad. When he got fired, they had a fucked future with no picks, the highest salary in the league, and nobody left to build around.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I love the title of this:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/too-z ... and-burns/

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I just named five guys that were worse. he drafted a guy late in the first round David Lee, that also turned out to be an all star. He also discovered Tracy McGrady. He also drafted Stoudamire 7th when a lot of guys thought he was a reach. Chandler, Ariza, were guys drafted late who turned out to be good players too. He made mistakes don't get me wrong. He had a number of hits also. I will take his ability to assess talent over guys like Jerry Krause. Do you want to look at the late round picks that the Bulls made and match them up against Isiah's? There isn't a comparison. He drafted Toni Kukoc in the 2nd round and the rest of his picks were pretty much bums.

There are a few guys in the league that are good, but there are a lot of them that are very bad at that stuff. You can cavalierly push it off if you like, but I'm wondering who are these great GMS that litter the league?


Let's have at it.

Name the guys that have done so well at plucking talent? You have S.A OKC G.S. Name five others.

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No, you did not. Thomas was a worse GM than all of those guys except possibly Billy King.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'm not upset. I just present counter arguments. I admitted that he overpaid for guys. That was his biggest flaw as a GM. He also traded for Zach Randolph too. Marbury was a good move that didn't work out. He had misses, but his ability to assess talent is better than a number of guys that are currently in the league. he also had hits too and those are being conveniently overlooked for the sake of argument.

His opinions are highly regarded around the NBA. That is why he was hired as an analyst. It is really interesting how many of you defend and agree with IMU, yet take the position that he can speak for himself. I rarely if ever have found any of you to disagree on basketball stuff even when he says stuff that is obviously stupid. Yeah he can speak for himself alright.

Even when you disagree its not vehement denunciations. Its really lighthearted banter at most. When I call him dumb stuff that is difficult to defend, the defenders are conspicuously silent. If it is something that can be slightly challenged, you are full guns blazing. Yeah you have "credibility" don't you.

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Not true at all. He's widely considered a joke, and rightfully so. Emmit Smith was hired as an analyst too. Not exactly a bright dude.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Your obsession with IMU is a bit creepy, but you're wrong here. I disagree with IMU about basketball related things all the time. We have disagreed over MCW, Noah, Butler, Deng, etc in the past. But he's not a troll and he's not a dumbass. He doesn't do things like defend Isiah Thomas as a GM and talent evaluator. There's a reason me, DB, Bagels, JORR, Phil, Zeph, etc are all laughing at you for this.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

David Kahn was worse as a GM. Look at his drafting record. Johnny Flynn. The other kid from Syracuse that plays for the Lakers. Wes Johnson i think is his name. Passed on Demarcus Cousins for him. Passed on Steph Curry to draft 3 point guards. He is better than all of them. Look at his picks all high and tell me how Isiah was worse?

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David Kahn was an awful GM, but he didn't set Minnesota back years after he was fired by trading away all his future picks for a fat big man with a heart condition who can't rebound or play defense. Zeke was still worse. Keep trying.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Brian Scalabrine is the studio analyst for Celtics games

Of course. He was the architect of that 2008 Boston super team.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I don't really care about IMU or your beef with him. I am more going to bat on your defense of Isiah Thomas which I find to be fascinating, because I thought he was pretty much universally acknowledged as a terrible GM. Plenty of idiots get hired as analysts. Did you know Matt Millen was hired as a football analyst? He was the GM of a Lions team that went winless. Stupid people get jobs all of the time, it does not mean that they are good at them.

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its nothing creepy about it. Its creepy how some of you guys have a real incestuous type relationship to be honest.

I just find it interesting that whenever I am involved those disagreements that you speak of never come to the surface. Credibility my ass. The other guys are cool because we can disagree but it never gets personal. With a certain group it always resorts to name calling at some point. I can handle it because I am a man but i will always call people on bullshit when I see it.

Its funny how guys have all of these disagreements but when I'm involved they never materialize do they? All you have to do is perform a search function and it will become apparent. Same guys each and every time. Always remember that you have "credibility" however. Lest not forget that.

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Leave White Mamba out of this....

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I have no beef with you. You are disagreeing without the name calling bullshit attached to it. I have participated in some of it, but mine is usually in response to something someone has called me. Its cool.

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_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Passing on Damarcus Cousins and Steph Curry, especially considering that Kevin Love was already in place, is worse than anything that Thomas has done. I don't think that David Kahn made one right move as GM. I don't think that he was the person that drafted Kevin Love either.

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Nope.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

If I'm following this correctly, long time guy is still adamant in judging based primarily on playoff appearances and playoff success, correct?

So Isiah Thomas post playing career?

Toronto Raptors = 3 years, 0 playoff appearances

Indiana Pacers = 3 years, 3 playoff appearances. Lost in the first round each time

New York Knicks = 6 seasons, 1 playoff appearance. Lost in the first round.

Total of 12 years. 4 playoff appearances. Never made it to the second round.

Coaching record of 187-223 for a .456 W/L%.

He may not be the single worst coach / GM, to be fair. But he is 'one of the worst.' You can argue about Top 5 or Top 10, I don't care. But he clearly isn't a great talent evaluator.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Also worth noting he inherited an NBA Finals team here.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Subjective, and probably unnecessary to my point.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

No, it's not. They literally went to the NBA Finals the year before and returned the entire team.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Aren't you one of the Sox fans that were telling me a 2016 playoff appearance isn't promised to the Cubs?

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Frank The Philosopher King is the one repeatedly mentioning tomorrow being promised to no one. I think it's fair to call a team that just went to the NBA Finals a NBA Finals caliber team. I'm not going to disagree if you say the 2016 Cubs are a NLCS caliber team.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Fair enough. TBH I misread your post or didn't consider the phrasing. You did say inherit. The previous year was clearly a Finals team. I'm not going to argue it... I clearly think Isiah was a career underachiever.

Isiah makes Gar and Pax look great.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

IMU wiffing on isiah actually being responsible for the collapse of the CBA...and I will only say that people I know who have had dealings with him say he is one of the worst guys ever to deal with on anything.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”