Well according to many posters here, that's pretty hard

This is off the top of my head but I'm sure many others can add to this list.

They still make less than men for the same job
They aren't in as many leadership positions in corporate America
They're virtually absent from government
We debate about what they can or can't do or put in their bodies
We just allowed them to fight on the front lines in the military
Their physical appearance is judged more harshly than men
They get harassed in the work place more often
They're raped more often
We blame them most of the time when they are harassed or assaulted
They get pregnant
They're expected to be the primary caregiver of that child
Religions still consider them to be inferior
They aren't consider for positions in the church because of their gender

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

You've already dismissed any answer as identity politics and victimhood so it would be pointless.

Why is it stupid though? We associate green with Go, and red with Stop, and yellow with Yield. We associate green with money. I could go on but our society is filled with color connections to various parts of our society. Red/pink for women and blue for men is just another one of those things.

Differences are not always inequality. My wife also wears dresses where I do not. She's fine with that. I'm fine with that.

How about we concentrate on actual inequality that matters rather than red/blue?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Maybe in some small shop that is run like a boys club. But I've worked in the catering industry that is run largely by women and homosexuals. It wasn't my preferred atmosphere, but I got paid. If I wanted to feel sorry for myself I could certainly have found reasons to walk around in a permanent state of being offended. Maybe it was even a hostile atmosphere for me.

At a regular corporate job, I don't think sexism is carrying the day with modern HR departments, etc. Anyway, so what if it is? Everyone has different problems. Life isn't some Utopian dream where everything goes your way. It's like Clarence says to Alabama in True Romance when she complains how everything sucks: "Yeah, that's usually the way it goes, but sometimes it goes the other way too." I'm sure my wife has had moments where being female didn't serve her professionally. But there was also the time when she was in her 20s and a male boss gave her a 35% raise because he though she was cute. That's a raise you and KDdidit aren't getting. You guys have hard lives.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Many of those are simply not true or at least completely unsupported, e.g. less for the same work, absent from government (women make up a majority of voters so if it were actually true, I guess it would be their fault). And many of those complaints have counterparts on the male side, e.g. he is expected to be the primary breadwinner, he is judged on his earnings, etc.

I'm not even arguing that a woman's life isn't hard. But the implication is that it is somehow harder than a man's. It's simply "hard" in different ways.

I will admit that they are raped more. Men are attacked and beaten more though.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Yes we can only concentrate on one thing at a time, that's how progress is made. If you admit pink isn't inherently feminine and blue masculine (I think you did in the other thread) I don't understand why you wouldn't think it was stupid to arbitrarily associate it with genders.

So your overall point is "nobody has it perfect"?

How do you separate that from racism? Is racism being put out of business by modern HR departments? Or because a black guy got a job to fill a quota like your wife's raise?

Im not making a 1:1 comparison but there is a lot of crossover on how certain races and women are marginalized.

And I think there are far more boys club type work places than you seem to think. Its not as loud and proud but it's there.

While not getting too much into any personal stories, the biggest issue seems to be a woman who is of the standard child rearing age.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Well, green doesn't inherently mean Go either. It doesn't mean the association with the color is wrong.

I need an explanation as to why this specific color instance is somehow wrong when there are thousands of examples of colors being used to associate with something.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Collared Greens for instance

I see all the usual suspects are here arguing about what amounts to the dumbest argument ever.

Keep up the good work fellas!

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Yeah, I think everyone has different problems. Is it hard being a woman? Maybe. It's hard being a man for different reasons. There are different expectations for both genders. It's hard being "ugly" too. It's hard being fat. It's hard being bald. So what?

And I think you work in a field that informs your thoughts male dominated workplace. What could be more testosterone-fueled than the trading floor? If you worked for Limelight Catering, I think you'd have a different impression.

In any case, I think it's a little ridiculous to compare women, who actually make up a majority of voters and who attend university in greater numbers than men, to black people who were dragged here in chains and then kept down through laws for another 100+ years.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

You don't see the issue arbitrarily assigning traits to genders?

Regardless of how many pages it eventually gets to, that statement will almost certainly continue be true throughout it.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

We are talking about colors here, not traits.

I just want a clear and concise reason why pink/red being associated with women is wrong or damaging.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Jorr I'm surprised by your take on this considering how you feel about blacks and some other minorities. That being said the same argument that you make against women could also be made (usually is) about blacks and other ethnic minorities and you would be on the opposite side of this debate.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Liking pink is a trait associated with women. There's no reason for women to be associated with red/pink aside that it's convenient. Green literally means go. Red literally means stop. Pink literally does not mean women.

Green and red are arbitrary choices for a specific thing. So is red/pink and blue.

No one says women can't like blue and men can't like pink.

Still waiting on that explanation as to why it is bad.

We painted our boys room blue. Is that a problem?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Women are not a minority.

I'm surprised at your stance too. You seem like a guy who believes in traditional gender roles, which are the entire thing driving the conversation. But those traditional roles are getting further and further in the rearview mirror. More women than men are obtaining college degrees and advanced degrees. It won't be long before the corporate board rooms are filled with women. And you know what? There isn't some inherent nobility in a vagina. When women have the power they will act the same way men do. And if you work for a company that is dominated by women, you may find yourself on the outside as a woman you feel is less qualified is promoted past you. And my answer to you then will be the same: so what? Life isn't fair. And people are people.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

yes, this is a thing.



This is kinda gross, and I suppose now you can say it's hard for women in the workforce because people share the opinion JORR has.

I had 2 girls and became a single parent and it changed my views.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

OK, but it's not now.

But you seem pretty entrenched, and I agree it's a discussion best not made here in a male-only board, no anecdotal evidence here will change your mind.

Yes, no one is saying women can't like blue and men can't like pink. They're saying women like pink and men like blue. If we changed what red and green meant with stop lights tomorrow it would be chaos. If we changed what pink and blue meant with gender preference nothing would change.

Paint your kid's room whatever you want. You're smart enough to know if you surround your kid with blue and he grows up liking blue it's not because "boys just like blue."

JORR / Milo Yiannopoulous= Match

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Why does it matter though? We have a color that often represents a gender. You have yet to explain the harm in that.
I doubt many people think that blue/pink is a genetic thing. It's a society thing. The question is why it matters.

I believe you wanted to move past the concept of red/pink = girl and blue = boy. Why is that needed?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This color argument is getting silly.

Truth is that there are roles that are better performed by men and vice versa.

Who do you want pulling your unconscious body out of a house fire?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Ok, so "everybody faces some challenges" is your point.

That's fine but then why do you rail against the modern gilded age? Ultra Rich people have problems too.


True, but even adjusting for that, its still bad. Also these ideas were present in the jobs I had before starting at the board.




That's not what Im doing at all. Im not comparing the entire plight of black people vs women.

Im asking speficially why institutional racism is a problem but sexism is not? If its only the slavery part that makes a difference than we can just chalk up institutional racism to "life isnt perfect" I guess?

I believe women were also kept down by laws for a good period of time, werent they? (suffrage)

I ask you the same question, why is red/pink = girl and blue = boy needed? There has to be some color on a stoplight that means go and some color that means red. There's no such need for gender.

Don't be a phony. Everybody uses what they've got. Do you know that a taller salesman is almost always more successful than the shorter guy? Shorter people have it hard.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don