Per Chris Mannix of SI on his 'The Vertical' podcast.

If this is accurate, I'm guessing they might think it's 'easier' (?) to trade a player than fire Hoiberg and be paying out on three coaches at once because ... I don't know.

Easily the worst major franchise in town right now, top to bottom.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Might be the Sox at the bottom, but whatever, not much of a difference at this point. This team should be in the ECF with a competent coach, or maybe just second round fodder. No that's not what you'd ideally want, but the fact that they won't be in the ECF or probably the second round demonstrates how lousy of a coach this guy is.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I'm admittedly far from a Bulls expert and consider myself a casual fan.

I tend to agree with the franchise being directionless and troubled at this point.

Serious question - Why would you want to trade Butler and keep Rose? Shouldn't that be the other way around?

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"This is Chicago, my friend. Anything can happen."

Don't worry, the Bulls are going for it next season.

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(a) Who wants Rose?
(b) Rose goes away after next year anyway.
(c) The apparent Hoiberg/Butler friction reports might not be far-fetched ... maybe even under-reported.
(d) Thibs' thoughts on this season.

_________________
Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

If you're untradeable you're either someone like Kevin Durant or Anthony Davis, which is good, or you're someone like Glibert Arenas, which is bad. Rose was once untradeable for good reasons, and now he's unfortunately untradeable for bad reasons. Even though his play has picked up somewhat, his injury history makes everyone except the dumbest GMs think twice about trading for him with the money he's making.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

All good points.

Thanks!

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"This is Chicago, my friend. Anything can happen."

trade his ass

dude has worked as hard as he possibly can. he will never be any better than he is now, and how much does he effect games? he usually doesnt. see ya butler.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

The Sox organization is still in a better place than the Bulls.

The Bulls trading Butler would also be a last straw. I don't *need* to be a Bulls fan.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

They should definitely be listening to offers for him, but it worries me that they are actively shopping him, if this is true. He should only be dealt if you are getting a lot back in return.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What's the point with Bozo standing on the sidelines? The GS Warriors would be 35 games worse than where they are now if Hoiberg were over there. "Next Steve Kerr" my ass.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

This is an OLD story, they shopped him around the league and got a low 1st rder in the 20's

Now maybe the offseason brings new interests, because nothing makes a guy ore valuable than a knee injury!

You want to blow it up, go ahead, they should blow it up....yeah, but that little nagging issue of the contracts!!!!!

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

He's not going to be around after next season. Vinny was only here two years and I think he actually made the playoffs both years iirc. They'll move on from him quick if next season is anything near as disastrous as this season.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Did Vinny have a 5 year $25 contract?

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Here's the thing: if Hoiberg sucks then why move Butler? Fire Hoiberg then figure out how to use Butler. Like you said, they're probably not going to fire Hoiberg this off-season, but then if they're shopping Butler that means they're moving a decent asset to appease someone they're going to fire anyway. Of course this assumes that Hoiberg wants Butler gone, and that GarPax recognizes that Hoiberg blows.

And yeah I know Butler is not cut out to be your best player. Probably not good enough to be your second best player on a championship team. That being said, he's an asset the Bulls should leverage either on the court or in a trade designed to get better, not to appease some no name incompetent coach. Screw your supposedly crisp ball movement when Butler's on the bench, get me some wins or gtfo.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

The 12th to 18th best player in the NBA isn't cut out to be the second best player on a championship team? GTFO.

Don't disparage Butler because Hoiberg is a terrible coach and Butler is currently nursing an injury.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

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Aschburner is the only guy I have heard laugh at the suggestions of rebuilding.

"people forget, when you sign these guys for big money, they are yours! "

The smartest man in NBA media!!!!!

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

It's interesting that the Bulls are considering trading Butler. They are obviously souring on their Jimmy Butler as the best player model. Maybe don't think he is a viable option as a #2 guy. #3 on a championship contender.

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It is more about making GarPax look bad in exposing their over matched coach.

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Yeah... I would trust Jimmy Butler more as an NBA GM today than I do Gar Forman or John Paxson. Hell...Butler could player-coach as well, and the team would be better than they currently are.

It is an indictment of the front office, not Jimmy Butler, that the Bulls would consider trading Jimmy Butler.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I'm not viewing this potential trade through any lens that includes Hoiberg. The Bulls don't have any young stars to build around Butler. He's not good enough to justify trying to rebuild around him, especially given his age. Like I said, I wouldn't be actively trying to get rid of him, but if they can get the Nets pick from Boston and some other assets they should do it immediately. This team needs to be gutted through and through.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

This is the most value that Butler will have. I'm not in favor of moving him but if another team is willing to overpay because they think Butler is a top ten or even 15 player, then you move him. The Bulls should be able to get 2 starting caliber players for Butler if he is that good. By that I mean they should be able to acquire 2 guys that are top 10 at their position.

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I'm glad you aren't the GM of the team. I would be fucking pissed if they traded Butler for two decent guys. What are you trying to win right now?

No. If you trade him, you're looking to get very high draft picks and/or very promising rookies or 2nd year guys back. And you have no idea if the part in bold is true and either do I, but I'm guessing it's not true.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

This is why you tend to get a lot of this stuff wrong. You have to be able to see that he is a 28 yr old guy that has probably maximized his ability. You can't wait until he begins to slide and then attempt to trade him. He will be about 30 31 at that point and you won't be able to get much.

You're not going to get top five picks for Jimmy Butler and to be honest don't know if I'd make that move even if you could. Picks are relative to who ever is in that yr's draft. If its the 15 draft yeah. If it's this yrs or the 2014 draft nope. Simply stating "picks" is not enough.

Boston couldn't give those picks away last season. That's illustrative of their overall lack of value.

The NBA is a man's league. You don't win with young players. Give me two guys that are top 10 at their position for Butler and you start building with that.

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I agree that this is the most value Butler will ever have. And Vegan is correct... he's a great #3 on a championship team, but probably not a good #2.

The best #2s in the NBA right now include:
Klay Thompson or Draymond
Durant or Westbrook
Kyrie Irving
LaMarcus Aldridge
****
Those are.your title contenders, and I'd take every one of those guys over Butler, age notwithstanding.

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With all due respect to Vegan, I called that one months ago. I agree with your points about the top #2 guys in the league. I'd take any of them over Butler.

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I don't get a lot of NBA stuff wrong. Let's correct stuff you got wrong though. Butler is 26, not 28 years old. It's tough to say he's maximized his ability when he currently is still getting better every season he plays. I also made no mention of waiting 4-5 years until he's 30-31 to trade him so you can also knock that shit off too.

It's simple: when you have a star player clashing with the coach and front office and the team is actively trying to trade him, his value will inherently be lower than it otherwise would. This isn't complicated. So you have a pretty difficult sell on your hands if you want to try to make the case his value at it's highest. I would suggest starting with getting his age correct.




The Celtics were trying to give away a top 5 pick and nobody wanted it? This is why you're a joke of a poster when it comes to the NBA. I mean, just say that shit out loud and realize how stupid it sounds.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Oh, I was just being polite to Vegan. I made this exact post in 1993.

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comprehension really, really is not a strong suit. It just isn't. Unless its spelled out it won't be understood. Boston didn't have a top 5 pick to give away so why would I suggest that they were available for trade?

You advocated for the acquisition of Boston's picks and I simply stated that they didn't have that much value last season Teams are not going to trade top five picks for Jimmy Butler and even if they would I don't believe the Bulls would do it.

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