We were told that this would be a playoff team minus Thibs. Of course it falls on management but it was clear Hoiberg didn't know what he was doing. Hopefully he takes a huge leap forward next season or we are going to start missing Vinny.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

The Bulls season collapsed once Noah went out. No one on this current Bulls roster is the equivalent of what Rose was at his best. No one on this Roster is the equivalent of what Noah was at his best either. He finished 4th in MVP voting that season. Thibs did a good job of coaching that team to the playoffs. I would have to really look at the roster from a few yrs ago but I will give him credit for that. This is a better conf though. There are better teams in the now than there were then. Jimmy Butler effectively replaced Deng and it was obvious that Deng wasn't as difficult to replace as first imagined.

I think the bigger issue is GarPax. They are missing on players at an alarming rate. Snell, Dunleavy, Mirotic, McDermott, are all guys that they have missed on. They held unto to Gibson for too long. They also believed that their depth was better than it was. The Bulls bench was putrid this yr.

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They weren't a .500 team with Noah. Injuries played a role in missing the playoffs more so than Thibs. There are questions about the overall level of talent though. Gasol is sliding fast. Gibson and Dunleavy aren't starters on playoff teams at this stage of them game and Butler can't be the best player on a top 4 team. The Bulls playoff push effectively ended during those back to back losses in New York. Butler was thoroughly outplayed in both games by then oft-maligned Melo and Porzingus destroyed Gibson. That wasn't on Hoiberg.

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No.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

i don't
it took him forever to figure out that playing Towns and Dieng together in the same frontcourt was OK
it also took him forever to realize Lavine is a shooting guard and not a backup PG

At the time I said losing Noah would really hurt the Bulls. People kept trying to point out that the Bulls were 7-1 with him out and that his numbers were down. Noah provides things that can't always be measured on a stat sheet.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

eye test ?

Yeah. He's a guy that you have to watch. When he was playing well his stats were really good too but I don't think they told the entire story.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

I thought the same thing about his impact at the time. Lost in the intangible arguments about his game were his tangibles. The guy was on a rebounding tear and avg about 4 assists per game. He was doing it in about 20 per game too because Hoiberg felt the need to have him split time between Gibson and Mirotic. His shooting percentage was low but that is neglible because he isnt a scorer anyway. The Bulls defense was much better too. Noah and Gasol own the glass and are decent rim protectors. ONce Noah went out teams began to kill the Bulls on the glass with the undersized Gibson and extremely soft Mirotic. Not to mention Gasol, whose deficiencies with regards to help defense and rotation becoming more apparent. There was a virtual layup line every game.

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They probably would have made the playoffs ... and, as per usual, done nothing of consequence in them.

I figure one should abandon hope until at least 2019.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

Every other team in this city has either made meaningful strides or is already a powerhouse. So it dampens the pain of an under performing and hard to watch Bulls team.

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Hawaii (fuck) You

No, I'm saying there's no difference between them for the purpose of the stat you're relying on to make the absurd case that Thibodeau never had the injury problems Hoiberg did this year. Thus the suggestion that it's too coarse of a measure.

Which again a)does not mean that he was a quality starting 3 last season and b) undermines citing the 50+ games he's missed as an adequate excuse for the Bulls' poor performance.
Can any of these declines in player form be attributed to The Mayor and his brilliant system or in every case are they unfortunate circumstances of a universe against poor Fred? Just wondering.

Why is "benched" in quotes here? Noah was benched. Did you miss the whole story about Hoiberg taking him out of the starting lineup and lying about Noah requesting it? And so should he be re-signed next year or what? In the other thread you were just dismissing him as more of a spiritual leader than a player, now his absence is what caused the season to go downhill?
Oh okay, he must be the best because Hoiberg thinks he's the best. I guess you don't think starting lineups are a fair point of criticism fans can make against a coach? Again, Dunleavy's played poorly since he's gotten back. His absence for 50 of his missed games is not a good excuse for the coach's performance.
I used the stats I had on hand from http://www.blogabull.com/2016/4/7/11321 ... rrick-rose This entire discussion started with your own sleight of hand as you yourself used multiple different stats from season to season to paint a picture of the Bulls being healthy under Thibodeau. They weren't.

The Bulls were .500 without Dunleavy in the lineup last season. Don't know how to quantify his absence but he was viewed as a key component while he was absent. He stinks this season and he also stunk during the series with Cleveland. I wasn't in favor of resigning him but they must think he is the best option at the position. I have personally stated that McDermott has to start over Dunleavy for the drafting of him to be validated. It also would be an upgrade. That Snell and McDermott couldn't beat out an over the hill bum that was never good in the first place is an indictment on the front office.


In terms of Noah, it seems that all you ever hear about or his leadership qualities. Noah is more than that in my opinion and I have always believed that intangibles are overrated. I much prefer the tangible aspect of sports. vague terms like "chemistry", "leadership", "energy", "effort", tend to overrate guys value i.e Taj Gibson. When you say that a guy was benched I tend to think of it in terms of not playing at all. Like what is occurring with Snell. Coming off the bench and benched are separate in my opinion and that is why I quoted it. Semantical argument. Not really important. Noah has to be a player to justify resigning him. If he is going to be simply a cheerleader let him roll. Lost in the discussions regarding his intangible qualities are the fact that he is still solid defensively, 7 foot tall, rebounds exceptionally well and is one of the best passing centers in the game. I don't want him to be resigned so that he can teach Mirotic how to play hard, or show Portis how to be a professional. Keep that.


I would assume that the vast majority of people on here believe Dunleavy to be the best option also. There was a thread titled "Dougie McSuckets" in which most bashed the guy relentlessly. No one is a fan of Snell either. Its not just Hoiberg that believes Dunleavy is the better option.


How can you suggest that the Bulls weren't healthy when his first season in the league there were numerous guys playing in 80 or more games.

Second season he had numerous guys playing in 60 or more games. Only McDermott has played in 80 or more games this season. How are these too things equal? Thibs really seems to get a pass for losing to Philly during that second season too. On the one hand I keep hearing how he can coach the team to heights unforeseen then in the next breath you hear about how he shouldn't be expected to be an 8th seed because he lost his best player. Which one is it?

Im not saying that the lost of Dunleavy and Noah alone are the reasons that Bulls lost. There were injuries to just about everyone of consequence on the team. Rose also played the first 5 or 6 weeks with a mask which obviously hindered his play.

Hoiberg made mistakes but I think the bigger issue is GarPax. They are not as good as I originally believed.

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In fairness to Thibs not only was the Rose injury demoralizing but they also lost Noah for that series too.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!