Only a fool would believe Kidd is better than Thibs. You will find out nothing this year about Thibs. If the Wolves aren't competing for a title in 4 or 5 years he's failed. You're not hiring him to make the playoffs.

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To be honest I don't think that ever said he was better than Thibs. I said he out coached Thibs during that series.

Likewise only a fool would continue to believe that he didn't outcoach Thibs during that series.

Likewise only a fool would think you can win a championship without first making the playoffs. Not how it works.

Why do they have to merely compete for a championship? Shouldn't the "second best coach" be expected to win championships? And why should there be a four or five window for Thibs when people had Hoi berg threads up and running during the preseason? 4 or 5 yr window for him to merely compete? Awfully low bar for the 2nd best coach. "Competing" could simply be a 4th seed.

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Saving this post...
They will undoubtedly make the playoffs
Mavs/grizz/rockets were 6-8 and each of them is on the decline, one of them will easily be displaced
And of the teams that didn't make it, I guess I could see the Pelicans making it, but that's about it . Kings aren't rising up

I hope you do.

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Solid analysis

IIRC you ranked Kidd ahead of Thibs 2 seasons ago. If I am wrong I apologize.

Doc out coached Phil 1 year too. It happens. Doc won his series though.

Clearly if you are competing for a championship you are making the playoffs.

Thibs isn't taking over a playoff team or a team that is supposed to compete for a championship. He's taking over a team that hasn't made the playoffs in about 15 years. He's coaching in the best conference too. Considering the circumstances competing for a championship is a high bar.

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Kidd didn't take over a playoff team either, nor did he take over a team that was predicted to make the playoffs.

When you say competing for a championship I'd simply ask what does that entail? If he is a 4th seed would that necessitate competing for a championship?

Also, if there is not significant improvement by the end of Thibs second year then it should be considered a failure. This team improved markedly from the year before and has good young talent. They won 28 games this year under a coach that wasn't retained. They should be at least 6th seed by the end of year two.

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They'll improve, count on it
Stay out of Timberwolves business

This makes no sense. We already have five seasons worth of data that tells us how good a coach Thibs is.

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He had 1 conf finals appearance in 5 yrs yet that validates his greatness as a coach? Awfully low bar.

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Has Chris Paul been a good point guard in his career? This is a yes or no question.

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I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
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Was Brooks a good coach.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Hall of Famer. I know the angle you're working and it won't fly.

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Not really. Had superior talent.

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Thank you.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Also had bad luck with injuries to superstars, something you went to great lengths to point out just last week but curiously decided to omit this time around. Probably because you know it will weaken yet again your argument against Thibs. Anyway doesn't matter now, you've been refuted countless times re: Thibs to such a degree that you had to leave the board for a month or so. Best not to regurgitate discredited arguments on Thibs for your own sake.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

You're the same guy who said that those 2 superstars were disappointments even though they were injured. What's curious is that very few will go on the record to state what the Timberwolves will do next season. I just did. I sort of came back because I didn't want you to think I was somehow ducking the absurdity of thinking Minnesota would be better than the Bulls.

Billy Donovan has shown himself to be a much better coach than Scott Brooks. I provided the injury angle for OKC, not you.

The refutation that you speak is only an 8 game difference with about double the number of injuries too. At least I never used the lame excuse that the players didn't play hard for the coach because management told them to do so.

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All of this is pretty much wrong.

I took back the assertion after you correctly pointed out Durant and Westbrook missed a lot of playing time after 2012. Before you ran away I also invited you to board bet on the Wolves making the playoffs next year. You didn't commit. I haven't really relied on the management theory in arguments about Thibs but those stories are valid anyway. Not my fault you've got tunnel vision.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

You have used the management told the players to quit on Thibs argument also. Interestingly I found evidence of you bashing Thibs also. WYC?

I'm cool with the bet as long as the Bulls don't tank the roster. If they come back with exact same roster as last season they will have a better record than Minnesota. I'm not worried if that's the case.

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You made a Hoiberg comparison. I never called Kidd a failure.

Seeding doesn't matter if they aren't advancing deep into the playoffs but a 3rd or 4th seed in the West usually means you are really good.

If they aren't a playoff team by his 2nd season I would say he's failing unless the team plane crashes. There is a culture of losing in Minnesota. The Bulls at least knew what the playoffs were before Thibs arrived.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

That's fair enough. By the end of his second year they should make the playoffs. This isn't a complete rebuild. I think they were playing .500 over their last 30 games. Towns will be an all star in the next yr or two and Wiggins may be too. They have talent.

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If they have talent then why haven't they won anything? I think you've pretty much established that coaches don't matter.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

They have talent and cap room. Unless every young players has season ending injuries there really isn't a reason he shouldn't make the playoffs by year 2 and advance in the playoffs by year 3 and compete for a title by year 4 and 5.

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You erroneously overrate coaching. For example was it talent or coaching which caused OKC to beat S.A.?

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Bad matchup. Obviously Pop is the 2nd best coach in NBA history but he needs a more athletic PG to matchup against the Thunder.

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It's always both. Talented teams fail due to bad coaching, and less talented teams can win due to good coaching. I think you look at things too much like a scout might look at things, and it often means you necessarily discount things like coaching, team culture, general management, general workplace issues, etc., basically everything outside the court.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Don't really understand your point. Talent outweighs coaching. Most people here think Hoiberg did a terrible job. He didn't do a good job. I will agree there. His record was only 8 games worse. I could use excuses like the players didn't play for him or they resisted his system. I used more plausible excuses like injuries. He had about double the number of injuries that Thibs had. Rose was also obviously hindered the first couple of months when he did play because of the mask.

If you take Thibs and place with Philly they would not have made the playoffs.

You didn't really answer the question either.

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Both. The better team won the series, and fucking somehow Billy Donovan outcoached Pop. Pop thought his 1990's gameplan that was awesome in the regular season would work in that series, and never adjusted even though it was clear after game 4 that the gameplan wasn't working. But like Nas said, that's a really bad matchup for SA also.

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I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I think is fair expectation although I expect them to make the playoffs next year

I think the Timberwolves make the playoffs next year and Karl Anthony Towns will be a legit MVP candidate by the end of Thibs second season.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul