Who ya got?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Hussra wins.

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"All crowds boycotting football games shouldn't care who sings or takes a knee because they aren't watching." - Nas

Russel Westbrook

Pippin! Weeeeee!

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Where you at in the finals thread? I could use your help with LTG.

Dude is OFF his rocker

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

that's fucking awesome.

You guys are fucking insane. It's Kawhi Leonard and nobody is close.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Who?

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GP

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Thought it was current day players only. All time it's obviously Michael Jordan.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I had someone try to tell me that Isiah Thomas was the greatest defender of all time

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Defends his job history pretty damn well

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

_________________
You never miss your wealth, till your well went dry
Seem like only yesterday, you were here smiling
Now you gone away, but I know you in a better place
No traces of you, what can I do?
Alone and confused

Not so obvious. I don't think he was even the best defender (in pivotal games) on his own team. Ask Magic.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Well it seems like you're using his height against him in that case. It's not as if PJ put someone of MJ's size on Magic.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Pippen

If I were going to use his height/weight/size, I'd have mentioned Rodman on Shaq and every other center or power forward he primarily helped shut down.

Jordan was/is arguably the greatest of all time, acknowledging that he may not be the greatest defender isn't a shot. When it was time, he was the most tenacious. 90% of the time, Pippen was better. Imo.

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

I agree that it isn't a shot, and I'm more than willing to admit that Jordan may not be the greatest defender of all time, I just think the comparison to Pippen is unfair. The latter just had certain physical attributes that allowed him to do things on defense that Jordan couldn't do.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I was a little too young to appreciate Pippen in his prime. I was kidding about Jordan, although he was good enough where I can see how you thought I was serious.

2010-2013 LeBron is the best defensive player I can remember seeing and appreciating. When Kawhi Leonard is done I think he has a very good chance to go down as the Michael Jordan of defenders and win like 5 DPOTW trophies.

Honorable mention to Tony Allen. At his best, there are/were very few better.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

No, actually I think that Jordan could do virtually everything Pippen could on D if he had to. Jordan's aggresiveness made up for Pippen's height & wingspan. But MJ wasn't asked to play Pippen's role (nor should he have been) and Pippen's was D on the best 2 or 3 on the other team, not being a team leader & offensive creator.

It's kind of like Wilt vs. Russell in my book. Russell's primary job was D & holding down the paint on offense. Wilt's was to score first, second and last. Wilt had better tools, but his role (like MJeff) until LA was to spend his energy "scoring the basketball" (God I hate that phrase)

_________________
There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

1. And yet the first argument we ever got into was about Bart Starr, retired what 20 yrs before you were born?!?

2. LeBron may be the least appreciated defensive player in history. For this alone, I'll never put Steph above him in current "greatest" player discussions.

3. People are flat out afraid of Tony Allen. For good reasons.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

Detroit Pistons Dennis Rodman. His combination of athleticism and fundamentals were the best I'd seen.

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I'd love to see Draymond Green (heavier and about the same height) take on Shaq or Ewing in their primes. I don't think he'd measure up to Rodman, even allowing his (Green's) full arsenal of effort.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

They'd dominate him.

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Some of the rest of you won't want to believe this, but that is imo, almost inarguably true. Regardless of rules or game changes.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

To be fair, Draymond can go one of two ways from here, once he gets paid. If he's motivated, he has a chance to be mentioned with these all time greats. Rodman wasn't at his best in fourth season either.

Also, it's a different game. Green is inarguably a much better perimeter defender than Rodman ever was.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The Dennis Rodman that was with Detroit could guard on the perimeter better than Draemond. He was at his best then. That is when he was an absolute freak. The later Rodman wasnt as good because he was strictly a low post defender. Earlier in his career he was capable of guarding anywhere from 1-5.

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