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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:11 pm 
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Wow. Nick Swisher. Better clear a spot next to the 2005 trophy. :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:20 pm 
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They got a 'recognizable name' for less than $10 Million a year:

The Associated Press reports Oakland Athletics OF Nick Swisher's five-year contract extension with the team is worth $26.75 million. The deal includes a $500,000 signing bonus and base salaries of $700,000 (2007), $3.5 million (2008), $5.3 million (2009), $6.75 million (2010) and $9 million (2011). The 2012 club option is worth $10.25 million, with a $1 million buyout. If Swisher finishes among the top five in the MVP voting in any year through 2011, the club option increases to $12 million. The deal includes a limited no-trade option in which he can designate six teams to where he will not go during the final guaranteed year and the option year.

He can also relate to the White Sox players already: The Associated Press reports Oakland Athletics OF Nick Swisher has been suspended three games. Swisher was suspended for an incident Sunday, Sept. 16, where he charged the mound when Texas Rangers SP Vicente Padilla intentionally threw at him.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:24 pm 
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FredsMissingNuts wrote:
a 260 hitter who will never sniff 36 homers again, but he walks, great. Another slow guy to run the bases also.


so he's like andruw jones and jeff francoer? kinda like the asisan gentleman the cubs just signed? oh, ok..

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FredsMissingNuts wrote:
Another slow guy to run the bases also.


Yeah, we don't need any more people clogging up the basepaths


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As a Cubs fan, I have to say that this isn't that bad of a trade for the White Sox. I just have to ask, after making this trade, do the Sox have anyone left in their farm system? Between this trade and the Arizona trade, they can't have many prospects left. Oh wait, I guess there is still Brian Anderson :wink: .


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:52 pm 
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Look at it this way gang, Kenny went to the flea market version and came back with an economical version of Aaron Rowand - that can't steal bases.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:14 pm 
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Here is a fantasy baseball geek's take on the deal.
It backs up BD's analysis.

Quote:
Now 27, Swisher was a .250 hitter with a .799 OPS at McAfee in 2007, compared to .291/.921 on the road. For his career he's a .242/.808 hitter in Oakland, .260/.840 everywhere else, so it's clear the trade will mean nothing but good things for him. What'll be particularly interesting to see in the spring is where the White Sox slot him into their lineup. If he's a No. 2 hitter, as he was 50 times for the Athletics this past season, or even No. 3 (78 times), it's not unthinkable he could top out at 40 homers, 110 runs scored and 85-90 RBIs. Swisher's .361 lifetime on-base percentage -- .381 in 2007 -- backs up the notion he belongs in the top third of the order, mediocre speed on the basepaths or not. He'll be a noticeable upside play if all falls right for him in the spring, one who could rank as high as a top-20 mixed-league outfielder or top-eight first baseman, so watch closely



http://sports.espn.go.com/fantasy/baseb ... id=3179763

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:38 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I think this is a terrible move and I think Kenny overpaid. Swisher isn't a 2nd tier outfielder and Kenny traded 2 of his top prospects for him. Bad trade. Billy Beane got him again.



I agree. I'm not a Sox fan, but when I saw they sent 3 prospects, with 2 of them possibly good, I was shocked. This is a desperation move imo. Overpaid for a average player at best.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:20 pm 
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Nas wrote:
This is an awful deal. :roll:


are you that excited about ryan sweeney?


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:38 pm 
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They overpaid for him, and he's getting under $10 million a year??????????

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:44 pm 
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this is very interesting...after missing out on hunter and cabrera it looked like the sox might be advised to start rebuilding...but they traded the few prospects they have for swisher, who might ultimately project as a first baseman. if he has to play first due to injury trouble or to replace konerko, his value drops quite a bit as he doesn't compare well with most first basemen in terms of the bat.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:45 pm 
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lamar hoyt's burrito wrote:
Nas wrote:
This is an awful deal. :roll:


are you that excited about ryan sweeney?


No, but I absolutely hate getting rid of 2 of our best pitching prospects for a decent position player, especially in a year that we are hoping and praying for our 4 and 5 to just miraculously just become decent and our 3 is a 55 year old coming off a horrible season. If Gavin Floyd or John Danks fall hard this year, it will be very ugly.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:42 pm 
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Quote:
kinda like the asisan gentleman the cubs just signed? oh, ok..


And once again, it goes back to the Cubs, it leaves one question, why? Frank, I am not saying its a bad trade, but Swisher is "ok".

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:45 pm 
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he's got the flicker and infatuation...


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:30 pm 
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HE WEARS #33!!!

DA FIRE AND DA PASSION ARE BACK AT COMINSKY!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:33 pm 
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We have a #33. Vazquez. He's worn it since Rowand left.

Swisher will have to buy it from him. Vasquez is the older veteran so if he wants it he'll keep it.


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Beardown wrote:
We have a #33. Vazquez. He's worn it since Rowand left.

Swisher will have to buy it from him. Vasquez is the older veteran so if he wants it he'll keep it.


Way to piss in my koolaid bowl!

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Nas wrote:
Am I supposed to be excited about a career .251 hitter that strikes out 135 times a year?


im more excited about him than the potential of ryan sweeney and a guy who couldnt even make it to AAA, let alone the big leagues. the sox needed another OF and kenny got one.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:08 pm 
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i refuse to believe gio gonzalez is a "top" prospect. as far as sweeny goes, maybe KW learned his lesson with brian anderson. only time will tell i s'pose

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:17 pm 
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Frank Coztansa wrote:
i refuse to believe gio gonzalez is a "top" prospect. as far as sweeny goes, maybe KW learned his lesson with brian anderson. only time will tell i s'pose


The White Sox gave up young catcher Miguel Olivo, top prospect Jeremy Reed and minor league infielder Michael Morse for Freddy Garcia, catcher Ben Davis and cash from the Mariners.

The White Sox traded prized prospect Jeremy Reed, and up and coming infielder Michael Morse for Garcia. And swapped a young catcher for a never was.

How did that deal work out? Without pulling that deal they don't win a World Series. But hey... their farm system still has some top flight prospects. :roll:

You gotta trade something to get something the last time I looked.

Speaking of Garcia - the White Sox could always sign him and Kris Benson to incentive laden contracts. Benson would bring along his wife, which would spice things up in Elliott Harris's column.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:26 pm 
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Nas wrote:
You don't think there is a free agent out there that can bat .251 and strikeout 135 times? Korey Paterson is still out there.


Nas you have to look at upside here. His numbers have improved every year, he is signed for 4 more years & he is young. Gio maybe good but Kenny needed to get a quality player for this year & beyond & not play the great prospect game while Cabrera & Detroit, Sizemore & the Tribe eat our lunch. This ain't the Nfl where if good enough 3rd place gets you a wildcard


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What's remarkable is that Billy Beane traded his long-time mancrush in Swisher. Those of you who read Moneyball may recall that whole chapter about the draft and Beane on pins and needles trying to make sure that he gets Swisher. There were also mentions of Kenny with his phishing phone calls every fifteen minutes. If Beane is a genius then he must have seen something really special in Gonzalez to trade Swisher for him.

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here is highlights from 2007.
2007 Career Highlights: By Year: yyyy 2007 2006 2005 2004 2003 2002


Hit .262 with 22 home runs and 78 RBI in his third full season in the Majors...it was the second consecutive season he improved his batting average as he hit .236 in 2005 and .254 in 2006...added 100 walks for a .381 on-base percentage, which also improved for the second consecutive season...now has a .361 career on-base percentage, which is ninth best in Oakland history...his batting average, on-base percentage and walks were all career highs as were his 36 doubles and three stolen bases...matched his best with 141 hits...ranked sixth in the American League in walks, seventh in pitches per plate appearance (4.25) and 10th in strikeouts (131)...also tied for fourth in sacrifice flies (9), tied for fifth in intentional walks (12) and was seventh in percent of pitches taken (62.8%)...led the A's in doubles, sacrifice flies and go-ahead RBI (20) and tied for the team lead in games (150), runs scored (84) and hit by pitches (10)...the games and runs scored were the fewest by an A's team leader since 1987...reached the 20 home run plateau for the third consecutive season and his 22 home runs ranked second among AL switch-hitters to Cleveland's Victor Martinez (25)...they matched the third best total in Athletics history by a switch-hitter...now has 80 career home runs, which is a franchise record for a switch-hitter...continued to show versatility on defense as he started 57 games in center field, 46 in right field, 39 at first base and five at designated hitter...the starts in center field were the first of his career and they led the team...is one of three players in Oakland history to start at least 30 games at three different positions...joins Jay Payton in 2006 (51 in left, 44 in center, 41 in right) and Jason Giambi in 1996 (43 in left, 42 at first, 38 at third)...in his career, he has made 164 starts in right, 134 at first, 82 in left, 57 in center and seven at DH...the switch-hitter batted .291 (44 for 151) against lefthanded pitching and .250 (97 for 388) against right-handers...had 42 walks and 30 strikeouts against lefties and 58 walks and 101 strikeouts against righties...had a .458 on-base percentage against left-handers, which was third best in the AL...now has a .271 (115 for 425) career average against south paws with 88 walks and 82 strikeouts, compared to .244 (291 for 1192) with 172 walks and 322 strikeouts against righthanders... has hit 63 of his 80 career home runs off right-handers...had 14 home runs and 52 RBI on the road compared to eight home runs and 26 RBI in Oakland...15 of his 22 home runs were solo shots, 17 came at night and 10 either tied the game or put the A's ahead...hit .234 in interleague play and now has a .196 (37 for 189) career average against the National League...hit in every spot in the order from second through sixth and led the A's in most starts batting third (78) and second (49)...hit 11 of his 22 home runs from the two spot, which tied for second most in the AL...appeared in 59 games in center field, 57 in right field, 44 at first base and six at designated hitter...was also 0 for 1 as a pinch hitter and is now 0 for 6 in his career in the pinch...made his third consecutive Opening Day start on April 2 at Seattle...it was his second consecutive start at first base after starting in right field in 2005...had his first of three two-homer games on April 23 at Baltimore...the first home run was the 61st of his career, which broke Ruben Sierra's all-time Athletics record for home runs by a switch hitter...also homered twice on July 26 at Seattle and September 9 at Texas and now has nine career multi-homer games...hit one home run right-handed and one home run left-handed in all three of his multi-homer games in 2007 and five times in his career...there have been just eight such performances in Athletics history...agreed to terms on a five-year contract through the 2011 season with a club option for 2012 on May 11...had a career high five RBI on May 21 at Chicago and did so without the aid of a home run...it was the eighth time in Oakland history a player has driven in at least five runs without a home run...that game started a season best 10-game hitting streak (15 for 37, .405)...homered in all three games at Baltimore May 25-27, the second time he has homered in three straight games in his career...had five home runs in eight games against Baltimore and all five came in five games at Camden Yards...batted .333 with five home runs and 23 RBI in May, all his best one-month figures in 2007...now has a .301 (69 for 229) career average in May, his best for one month...was batting .305 at the end of May and then hit .216 in June and .205 in July...now has a .204 (74 for 363) average in June and July over the last two years...his averaged had fallen to .248 on August 11 but he hit .294 over his final 41 games...committed his first error of the season as an outfielder on August 25, snapping a 105-game errorless streak as an outfielder dating back to his last error on June 19, 2006 at Colorado in left field...scored a run in 10 consecutive games from September 5 to 15 (15 runs total)...11 of those runs came against Texas and he scored 20 runs in 18 games against the Rangers in 2007, the most ever by an Athletic against Texas...was hit by a pitch in three consecutive games against Texas from September 14 to 16 and was ejected from the game after charging the mound on September 16 after he was hit by a Vicente Padilla pitch in his first at bat...he is the fourth player in Oakland history to get hit by a pitch in at least three straight games...also homered in each of those three games against the Rangers, the third time he has done that in his career...was suspended for three games for charging the mound and served his suspension from September 18 to 21...matched his season high with three hits in his first game back on September 22 at Cleveland but went 3 for 23 (.130) over his final six games.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:11 pm 
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Argued this tonight at dinner.

250 BA with 22 HR is jeremy burnitz, journe man numbers.

Matt stairs could give you that if you lte him play everyday

at least it finally puts a Major League player in LF, just not so sure that should be the goal.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:13 pm 
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Nas wrote:
lamar hoyt's burrito wrote:
Nas wrote:
You don't think there is a free agent out there that can bat .251 and strikeout 135 times? Korey Paterson is still out there.


Nas you have to look at upside here. His numbers have improved every year, he is signed for 4 more years & he is young. Gio maybe good but Kenny needed to get a quality player for this year & beyond & not play the great prospect game while Cabrera & Detroit, Sizemore & the Tribe eat our lunch. This ain't the Nfl where if good enough 3rd place gets you a wildcard


What upside? His power numbers dropped and he is a career .251 hitter that strikesout a lot. Is he worth the money he is making? No. Is he worth any organizations top prospects? Hell no. Are there free agents that are better than him? Yes.


What free agents are you refering to?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:11 am 
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FYI wrote:

at least it finally puts a Major League player in LF, just not so sure that should be the goal.


I think this is the biggest plus side to the deal. The kid has proven that he can play and make a huge difference in games, and I for one am excited about him coming to the southside. While he may or may not be worth the money he is getting paid is irrelevant at this point, especially since there isn't a whole helluva lot available right now in outfielders.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:31 am 
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FYI wrote:

250 BA with 22 HR is jeremy burnitz, journe man numbers.


he's still relatively young. he'll only be 28 this year. he has steadily improved over the years...he needs to improve a lot more, but he's at least pointing in the right direction. at least it's not like he hit .321, .308, .298, then .254 before coming to the Sox.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:55 am 
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Swisher is not bad, but the guy is living the life of a first round draft pick. The potential has always come with this guy.

Hitting at the cell should help him.

Does eem like they gave up alot , I mean if kenny is right on his prospects that is.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:46 am 
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Nas wrote:
I would say Paterson would have been a better choice and it wouldn't have cost prospects. Here is a list of free agents

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/03/2 ... ree_a.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fr ... 006_season


I hear what your saying, but I can't agree.
It's likely that Kenny Williams didn't really see the guys he got rid of as anything that can help this team within the next year or two....or maybe ever.
And Corey Patterson...? NO
Probably would be similar salaries but Swisher is already locked in on salary for a few years, Patterson is an unknown as far as what he's looking for and I doubt Kenny wants to wait for another FA to shop around and price him out of the game again. Also, Patterson has pretty much demonstrated over about 7 years in baseball that he 1. can't play an entire season 2. can't draw a walk 3. will never reach his "potential".
Swisher offers a little flexibility in the batting order (he can probably hit anywhere but leadoff) and in multiple positions on the field (which i hate when players keep moving positions, but...).
So overall, he's locked into an acceptable contract for a few years in the prime of his career (he's younger than any FA outfielder) and has the potential to put up some decent power #s in US Cellular. The leftover FAs in the outfield don't strike me as guys that will match Swisher's #s and they certainly don't strike me as guys that are getting better in their careers like Swisher is likely to do. Also this gives Kenny some more options as far as possible trades involving Konerko or Crede or others. In a perfect world, we could've kept the prospects and they would be playing and contributing to the big league club this year. But that's not likely, and trading potential for proven major league talent (especially relatively young major league talent) is generally a good move. In the end I think Kenny subscribes to the motto "potential just means you haven't done shit yet", and I have no problem with that.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:14 pm 
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Nas wrote:
The guy is a .251 hitter that strikesout 135 times a year. Why is everyone acting like he is a all star or even has all star potential? A .251 hitter should never be traded for prospects. At least Patterson can get on and steal a base. At least a .262 batting average isn't a career year for him. I'll take a .270 hitter that will steal 40 bases over a guy that steals 1 base a year and costs 3 prospects. Kenny is also forcing Swisher to play a position that he can't play. Patterson is an above average CF.

Nas,
there is a little well known stat called OBP (On base percentage) - look it up sometime. :wink:
You are high if you think that a Patterson's .298 OBP is acceptable, and Swisher's .361 OBP is not.

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