+1 on the OBP you also can put Owens in center if he can't cut it in spring training. To me strikeouts are overrated anyway, plus he walked 100 time s last year, which besides Thome the Sox had a problem with. Gonzalez maybe a good pitcher in the long run but in other posts everyone was saying that we need to win now. If the 2 pitchers are part of your staff this year we were in trouble anyway. Nas what is an exceptable year to make this trade good?

I'm not saying Swisher's an all-star, just that I'd rather have him than Corey Patterson or any of the remaining FA outfielders. Mainly because he's younger that all of them (including Patterson), has a contract locked for a few years, and will likely get better. As far as your Corey Patterson love goes, and all the "i'd rather have the .270 average and a guy that gets on base and can steal 40...", let me just say this. It's unlikely Patterson will even play every day based on his history of missing about 20% of every season. Plus, he gets on base less, much less, than Swisher does. Patterson actually had a .254 OBP one year....that's HORRIBLE!! He's has 153 walks in his entire career. Swisher had 100 just last year....and what makes that worse is that Patterson has about twice as many at-bats. Their batting averages are basically the same (.269 for Patterson and .262 for Swisher last year). The speed element of Patterson's game is kinda negated when you consider that he can't bat at the top of the order. A .300 OBP batting leadoff or 2nd is just a recipe for a shitty team. Personally, I prefer players that are strong defensively, but in this case I think it's the right choice considering the options available and the options that it give for the future.

Who's saying anything about Swisher putting the team over the top?

Would Patterson or any of the other free agent outfielders put them over the top?

OBP isn't the only difference. It's the contract already being set. It's the multiple positions (on the field and in the batting order), which opens up the possibility for more trades. Who knows, Kenny might bring a couple of those prospects back ...or maybe Sandy Alomar or Carl Everett.

I am not saying he will put them over the top they need to get one of those FA pitchers on that list of yours. I would go after Colon with incentives maybe catch lightning in the bottle. But he puts them closer to the top than Patterson. Cory is a lefthanded Uribe at the plate, & we all agree on how that has worked out

Oh yeah!!! well, Swisher is taller...

Now I know you're fuckin with everyone Nas

The White Sox painted themselves in the corner of a "win now" philosophy when the signed Buehrle and Dye. Their moves are designed to compete now and not completely loose the fans gained during the 2005 season.
Not many teams can do what the Braves did, build from within while winning, and the Sox do not have the revenue to cover up bad signings like the Yankees and the Red Sox can.

They might finish 4th in the division again this year, but it will not be because of the same problems as last year.
They improved the infield defense with Cabrera. They improved the top of the order OBP without gaining much speed which signals to me the return to the home run derby years. And they improved the pen (but not enough).
Now hold your breath and hope that Contreras can pitch the way he did September not July, and that Floyd and Danks can finish around .500.
If that happens they will end up with around 85 wins and stay competetive, if it doesn't than you'll have a huge sell off at the trading deadline which should include Thome, Konerko, Vasquez, Dye & Cabrera for prospects.

Looking forward to a lot of 9-7 games on the south side in '08 - good thing my kids like fireworks.

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

Yet amazingly, over the same period the speedy Patterson has scored a 140 runs while the base clogging Swisher has score 190.

Be honest, Nas.
It's because Swisher is white, isn't it?

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

Don't forget to mention that from '06 to '07 Patterson has also cut down on his Hits, Runs, Triples, Home Runs, RBI, Stolen Bases, OBP, SLG% and OPS... but congratulations to Corey Patterson on dropping the strikeout total. Oh yeah, and for equal his previous year's walk total (21)...congrats

who would have ever thought that nick swisher and gio gonzalez talk would spark the fucking longest thread ever in the sox forum.

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You might get your wish around July of 2008
Just imagine:
Vasquez to the Mets
Konerko to Angels
Cabrera to Cubs
Thome to Yankees
Dye to Boston

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

It's cause you missed out on the C Lee vs. Pods thread, isn't it?

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“Mmmm. Move over, eggs. Bacon just got a new best friend - fudge.”

Can we get over the farce of the stolen base?? Detroit was 12th and Cleveland 22nd last season(Sox were 20th). It's the American league, get guys on and have the boppers hit home runs.

Last season Owens/Erstad had a .324/.310 OBP. Swisher had .381. Uribe had a .284, Cabrera .345. Kenny made 2 major upgrades and vastly improved the offense.

DING DING DING DING
That's the point....Corey Patterson is a part time player. You can't count on him. The White Sox aren't gonna solve their problems with one trade or one free agent pick up anyway. Swisher is a #2 hitter...not a leadoff guy (Boston, Detroit, they're pretty good without speed in the 2 slot). Most teams don't have speed at #1 AND #2 in the lineup...and most are lucky to get something even resembling a legitimate leadoff guy in the first place.
Kenny telling him that he's gonna be playing CF most of the year means what? Nothing. He might play 1B if Konerko is traded (because now they have a potential first baseman in Swisher) or he can play LF....Podsednik sucked in LF and Fields wouldn't be any better than Swisher.

I did not care for the Lee deal when it happened. I was very happy with the Contreras, Garcia, and El Duque moves though.

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It was a lot to give up. No doubt.

But I think Swisher's numbers go up with the Sox line-up. He was the guy they pitched around in Oakland. No protection. He'll see more fastballs in this line up.

Oakland is the toughest park to hit homers. The cell is one of the easiest. Plus he'll have more swings playing 82 games at the Cell. Oakland's huge foul territory took a bunch of swings from Swisher.

I'm rooting for Geo Gonzalez to suck. It would suck if he's great. But there is no guarantee he will be great.

Sox have a veteran team. Kenny was committed to going for it this year after signing Dye, Buehrle and A.J.

I have no problem with the move.

It never gets old how you twist everything around, ignore important facts, throw in some half truths and some misleading information to try and support your argument. You've pulled into the lead for the 2008 CSFMB Bullshitter of the Year. I'll buy you a beer at the Orioles/Sox game while we watch Swisher strike out and Patterson come in as a defensive replacement in the late innings....wait, nevermind, Patterson won't be playing before beer sales stop

Keep goin, I love it.... tell me again about the strikeouts, or the batting average.... or the strikeouts, or the batting average.... or the strikeouts

Excuse me for interrupting you two, but why is that such a crazy assumption? Obviously the Cell is a much better hitters park than Oakland Coliseum so it only stands to reason

Everyone always talks about AL pitchers improving upon moving to the NL regardless of their actual stuff, I don't think this is any different. If a ball hit 400 feet to center is a lazy flyout in Oakland and it's a homer in Chicago, how is that hard to understand?

Hey, go sell reason some place else. We have no need for that kind of talk in this thread

Take a look at Jermaine Dye's power numbers in Oakland versus Chicago. I would not be shocked to see 30 HR's.

Nas' concerns are valid though.

As I stated back in the Garland days, KW loves to overpay to acquire talent and gets undercompensated for his talent.

Oakland has a ridiculously large foul territory which turns what would be a foul into the stands at US Cellular into an out. Take a look at Swisher's avg at Oakland and his avg on the road. I bet it's higher on the road. I think most people are expecting .270 to .280 (.360 OBP) with about 25-30 HRs and depending on where he hits, about 80-90 runs/rbi.

This is going to be a great thread to revisit during the season.

It's not just the ball park Nas. He's in a better line up. He was pitched around more in Oakland. He didn't see as many fast balls.

Plus, there will be more guys on base for him to drive in here. He'll score more runs because the guys behind him are better hitters than in Oakland.

I've got him for .285, 33, 90.

Soooooooo, a .270 average versus a .252 is nothing?

Remember Brandon McCarthy and Kip Wells? Remember how those guys were gonna be great?

That's not to say that Geo Gonzalez won't be great just because those guys aren't. I'm just saying there is no guarantee with pitching prospects.

Well, theoretically it could. Say he hits a foul ball in Oakland that would have been a hit in the Cell, then the next pitch in Oakland he strikes out. There's an out that would have been a hit

I'm confused a little here. Wouldn't a foul ball in Oakland also be a foul ball in the Cell? Wouldn't it just be a matter of whether or not the ball stayed in play?

No, Oakland has a larger foul area than most parks

Right, fouling off pitches is a pretty rare occurrence in baseball

But a foul ball in one park is a foul ball in another park. The difference is whether or not the foul ball is caught for an out or not. I don't see how a foul in Oakland could be a hit in the Cell.