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JUST IN: Hockey legend Gordie Howe, known as "Mr. Hockey," dead at age 88 http://cbsn.ws/1tgyH7o


RIP

How?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Had a conversation with Robin Ventura and died of complete and utter unmitigated boredom.

Best hockey player of all time.

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stop

You must be unaware of my irrational hatred of Wayne Gretzky.

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Nothing irrational about hating Wayne Gretzky but obviously he was a better player.

No

In fact, Mario Lemeiux was also better

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Taking nothing away from the legend this is Gordie Howe. Gretzky and Mario better.
Back to topic.
RIP Gordie.

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was so good that he was the 1st player I hated

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

I think there can be a legit case that Mario was better than Gretzky. There is no legit case that Howe was better than either.

What is the case for Lemeiux?

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That he was better at the sport of hockey than Wayne Gretzky was.

And how.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

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To me, Gretzky is the best of all time but I'm just saying there's a case to be made for Lemeiux by someone who is good at this shit. If only JORR or Brick liked hockey.

I think you posses the intellectual savvy to explain such an opinion.

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Lemeiux was an amazing two player with a fantastic scoring touch. Losing a year to Hodgkins and his chronic back issues hurt his overall totals.

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I never heard stories of Howe's defensive prowess, but he had to be far, far better on his team's end than Gretzky ever dreamed of.

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There are only two examples of infinity: The universe and human stupidity and I'm not sure about the universe.

RIP.

He looked really bad when they paraded him out at The Joe for his birthday this past season.













12 points for whoever had him.

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Not a mult.

Any attempt to not place Gretzky at the top of the list is just sour grapes because you hate him. I dont care how he did it or that he had good teams around him... The man has more assists than anyone else has total points.

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cough cough Bobby Orr cough cough

and no, not the Bobby Orr in the Blackhawks sweater.

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and now #4 is brought in to the discussion. This concludes Hockey's all time top 3.
Gretzky, Mario, Bobby Orr.

I''m not enough of a historian to debate those 3. Gretzky was the one to me that stands out for me. I've always considered him #1, but there's smarter hockey people than I am.

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Gretzky's numbers are so out of this world that you can't simply ascribe them to bad leaguewide goaltending and a loaded roster. The guy's hockey IQ was the highest there ever was. When one guy has more assists than the next guy has goals and assists combined, there is no valid argument. Mario Lemieux, when you break it all down, should go down in history as the greatest hockey player of all time -- dude came back from cancer and still put up 161 and 122 the next two years -- if not for the existence of Gretzky. Orr is third, Howe is fourth, and really, there's no shame in any of that.

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Well said.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

What if Gretzky isn't on those Oiler teams?

I know he was the main reason for them being great, but what does his career look like with another organization?

And for the record, I'm not disputing his greatness. He was the best I've ever seen.

Well, if you take out every point he scored for the Oilers. He is still 49th on the all time list.

Lets assume he was on the worst team in the NHL during those Oilers years and only scored half of the points that he did.... He would still be #1 by around 200pts.

His stats are just insane....

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Obviously being on the Oilers helped. They won a Cup without him in 1990, that's how stacked they were. He dominated with the Kings though for a few years and they were god awful before he got there. They went to the 1993 Finals and only lost because the Habs made a deal with the devil and kept winning every game that went to OT in the playoffs that year.

Gretzky is the greatest of all time.