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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:38 pm 
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I would love if the Bears were to find a way to get James Hardy from Indiana in the second round. He has some character issues that are supposed to be gone now but he was the offense. He could be a steal in the second or even the third round.

I agree that offensive lineman is where the Bears should go if one of the top ones are available in the first round.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:41 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I would love if the Bears were to find a way to get James Hardy from Indiana in the second round. He has some character issues that are supposed to be gone now but he was the offense. He could be a steal in the second or even the third round.

I agree that offensive lineman is where the Bears should go if one of the top ones are available in the first round.


Do we really need more guys with character issues on the team?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:45 pm 
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Old Town Vince wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
I would love if the Bears were to find a way to get James Hardy from Indiana in the second round. He has some character issues that are supposed to be gone now but he was the offense. He could be a steal in the second or even the third round.

I agree that offensive lineman is where the Bears should go if one of the top ones are available in the first round.


Do we really need more guys with character issues on the team?


We do if they can stretch the field. His only character issue is that he had a domestic abuse issue where he allegedly hit his girlfriend and young child. He entered a pre-trial diversion program and avoided going to court for it. He seems to have been a good citizen for the previous year or two. Hopefully it was just one mistake, but I am sure that the NFL scouts will investigate heavily for other stuff.

There will be plenty of character issues in the draft but at least Hardy seems to be worth the risk.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 5:52 pm 
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Irish Boy wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
I have not seen a single QB in this year's crop on who I would waste a first round pick. If either Long, Clady or Baker are there OT is the way to go in this draft. It is a strong Tackle class and it is a position that has been neglected for FAR too long.

If those three are gone, I would consider S or WR to be the next two priorities. However, the Bears could use a player at almost anywhere so take a top 1-2 at a position if he is there.


Grodilus (sp?) at BC and Oher at Ole Miss, if he comes out, are in this class as well, although pick 14 might be a stretch for each of them. Long definitely won't be there, but the other two may. As time goes on, I'm growing more and more sour on the QBs.

But I'm with you, GD: I'm dead set on an OT at this point. Tait was good this year, but he's older and more a natural RT, and the rest of the line, excepting Kreutz, played at an unacceptable level.

If, somehow, Dan Connor drops to #14, I'd be for that as well. And who knows what will shake out of the annual Combine Kabuki.


I'm to the point that if one of those three would not be availabe at 14, then a trade up is necessary. The Bears need someone who can start tomorrow. There is no way in the world I would feel comfortable with Gradulius (I don't know how to spell it either) starting immediately. I have not seen enough of Oher to make that. My guy is Sam Baker but I like Clady. That is it. There really is no room to screw around with this pick.


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Long, Oher, Cherilus, Clady, Boone, Richardson, and Otah are the ones that I like but probably wouldn't take Richardson Boone or Otah until the second round. Baker's knee injury makes me want to take a pass.

It might be hard for Angelo to screw up this draft. This really is a pretty strong offensive line class. They might be able to get John Greco or Tony Hills in the 2nd round too.


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Oher couldn't start at LT next year, but he could start at a guard position and then move over. He might also still be around in the second round. It's still too early to tell. I know nothing about Clady beyond what I've heard, although that was certainly good.

One problem is that there's practically no way to predict where the LTs will be taken, because almost every team could plausibly take one, except probably the Jets.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:46 pm 
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I think drafting the best player on the board is the way to go.


I've never really liked that philosophy. More often than not a team will end up with a player they really can't use or worse a total bust. I'd rather draft linemen right now than QB or RB unless they were guaranteed or something really really special. I'd be pissed if the Bears took a "best player RB" and ended up being another Benson. There are too many variables for "best player available".


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Spaulding wrote:
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I think drafting the best player on the board is the way to go.


I've never really liked that philosophy. More often than not a team will end up with a player they really can't use or worse a total bust. I'd rather draft linemen right now than QB or RB unless they were guaranteed or something really really special. I'd be pissed if the Bears took a "best player RB" and ended up being another Benson. There are too many variables for "best player available".


Linemen aren't guaranteed either. The bottom line is that EVERY draft pick is a potential bust. I wouldn't want to pass on a potentially talented QB or RB just make a reach for a potentially talented lineman.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:19 pm 
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Some picks are riskier than others though. The Robert Galleries are few and far between, while there seems to be a crappy QB or two in round one of every draft. Anyone can bust, but QB, RB, and WR are especially treacherous. Of course, it's always tougher to talk in the abstract than use particulars, but would you rather have the 3rd QB or the 2nd OT off the board? I'm not sure there's a right answer, but I'd rather have the 2nd OT in this draft, and probably the 3rd or 4th, too.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:31 pm 
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I agree that it's tougher to talk in abstracts. The specifics of the situation would have to play a significant role in the decision-making process.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:41 pm 
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I wouldn't want to pass on a potentially talented QB or RB just make a reach for a potentially talented lineman.


Why? The Bears already have 2 potentially talented QBs and what they believed to be a talented RB. There is a revolving door at Halas for potential QB and RBs. None of them can or will succeed with the offensive line as is. This past season was an example of that. Hell, Wolfe was a bit of a reach in the 3rd round. I don't want the GM drafting players they don't need. You will get a field full of crap. Not to mention the money those position players suck up.

They have no linemen. Unless you can get another Elway, Montana or Payton then bring me OTs.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:17 am 
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Killer V wrote:
I agree that it's tougher to talk in abstracts. The specifics of the situation would have to play a significant role in the decision-making process.


:lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:44 pm 
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The queens have dumped money into the line over the last 2 years.

Bryant McKinnie rd 1 7th pick
Steve Hutchinson rd 1 17th pick
Matt Birk rd 6 6X probowler and 2X all Pro
That's a pretty good 3 man combo and their contracts add up to well over 100m.

Anthony Herrera also signed a five-year extension. Ryan Cook was drafted in rd 2 at #51.

The run game and passing game are dependant on the offensive line.

Arizona figured they were set with Arrington and James.
Raiders had Fargas Jordan and Rhodes and were in desperate need for a QB. Detroit is stupid and only drafts WRs. Washington has Lewis.
I see why they passed. If AP was a bust they'd have looked Ron Turner stupid. A few of the teams also have suspect lines and I doubt AP would have been as successful.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:54 pm 
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1. Dolphins - Glenn Dorsey - DT - LSU - I'm sticking with Dorsey here. If Parcells shifts this defense to the 3-4, they will need some personnel that fit that system better. Both Dorsey and Chris Long fit the system perfectly. The offseason workouts and combine will determine which of these guys is the most likely pick at #1, not to mention their contract demands. Either fits the system very well.

2. Rams - Jake Long - OT - Michigan - If Long continues to separate as the premier LT in this draft, the Rams will have to consider him here. They will also strongly consider Chris Long at DE to improve their defense up front. But one of their major problems is that every time Orlando Pace gets a significant injury (which is happening with regularity now), their entire offense collapses. They need another key OT to prepare for the eventual loss of Pace.

3. Falcons - Darren McFadden - RB - Arkansas - While this team will consider a QB here, unless one of them blows the doors off the place, McFadden cannot be passed up here. He is the most electrifying player in this draft and his combination of size and speed makes him the closest thing to Adrian Peterson in this draft. With an aging Warrick Dunn and a adolescent group of backups like Jerrious Norwood, a gamebreaker would be a key addition to pair with Byron Leftwich in '08.

4. Raiders - Chris Long - DE - Virginia - Son of Howie has been enamored over by Dad's former team. Long brings a combination of size, strength, and speed to the DE position that could make him a dominant force up front for the Raiders for many years. He is the type of player that you have to gameplan around and within a couple years, he could be having a Mario Williams impact for the Raiders defensively.

5. Chiefs - Matt Ryan - QB - Boston College - Matt Ryan/Andre Woodson/Brian Brohm, etc. The winner may go here as the 1st QB off the board. For now, we'll default to Ryan. A big time QB that can come in and develop with Dwayne Bowe and take pressure off of Larry Johnson would be a good fit for this team in case their current two headed/no winner race doesn't pay any dividends.

6. Jets - Ryan Clady - OT - Boise State - Clady is climbing up draft boards because of his versatility at the position. The Jets are building a very talented, and very young offensive line, so this pick could keep them on that track. They could also take Vernon Gholston out of Ohio State or any other D-line stud that climbs up draft boards before the draft.

7. Patriots via 49ers - Mike Jenkins - CB - South Florida - No, not Malcolm Jenkins. Mike Jenkins may be the top CB left on draft boards after Malcolm decided to go back for his senior year to OSU. Mike is a high quality player that New England could use to replace a departing Asante Samuel in 2008. Jenkins is very similar in size, speed, and athleticism to Samuel, so he would be a good starting point to replace him. A LB could also be an option here.

8. Ravens - Andre Woodson - QB - Kentucky - Again, Ryan/Woodson/Brohm, or whoever the best at the position is left on the board after they sort themselves out. The Ravens need a QB and they are in position to draft another with a lot of potential. With Troy Smith likely back as the team's #3, the Ravens could set up a major battle at QB next year for the starting job.

9. Bengals - James Laurinitis - LB - Ohio State - We don't know if Laurintis is coming back or not yet. As of right now, he is undeclared (which has to change by tomorrow). Laurinitis may get the nod over a guy like Ray Maluga out of USC with Cincinnati because he is a hometown boy and one of the best LB's in OSU history. That alone could make the pick popular with the fan base.

10. Saints - Kenny Phillips - S/CB - Miami (FL) - Phillips is the most versatile DB available and the Saints have a lot of work to do in this secondary. They are simply not good, despite shelling out top dollar for some of the highest price free agents at the position in 2007. They need to build from within and stockpiling talent in the secondary is the first step in stopping the bleeding.

14. Bears - Brian Brohm - QB - Louisville - I still think the Bears will take the leftovers at the QB position if they can. If they are all gone, or one of them drops off the board in the workouts, then a guy like Sam Baker, the OT out of USC could be the pick. I say QB first, OT 2nd, LB/WR/RB 3rd.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:44 pm 
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In my opinion there is no QB in this draft worthy of a top 15 selection but since it is such a coveted position, there will be. I agree that Matt Ryan is the best of the bunch of the three. If the Bears really like a QB at 14 I have no problem if they bring one in and cut Griese or don't resign Rex but I don't have high hopes for any QB drafted in the first round.

I hate drafting a QB in the first round unless you are sure that he is a franchise QB. The Bears spent half a decade trying to convince themselves that they got a franchise QB in the late first round with Rex. Hopefully they are a little bit more skeptical this time around.

I am of the opinion that the Bears will not go QB in the first round but will take a chance on Colt Brennan as a value QB. If they get him in the fourth round or later, I like the pick as he does have potential.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:41 pm 
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Good stuff as always BD. Good to see "Glenn" Dorsey getting a shot in your mock draft this time. My only real disagreement if I was making this list is having the Pats draft James Laurinitis. I'm convinced that's who they will take if he becomes available.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:19 pm 
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Woodridge Ryan wrote:
Good stuff as always BD. Good to see "Glenn" Dorsey getting a shot in your mock draft this time. My only real disagreement if I was making this list is having the Pats draft James Laurinitis. I'm convinced that's who they will take if he becomes available.


Usually lately they seem to go with veteran LB's, not younger ones, even potential studs like him. As fiscally conservative as they are, I think they trade the pick down and end up getting multiple picks from another team.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:28 pm 
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Nas wrote:
Forget the top 15 Rick I'm not convinced there is a QB in this draft worth taking in the 1st round. All of these guys have bust written all over them.


The sad part is this statement can be said for the past 5-10 years of QB's...don't think we can really wonder why there isn't a lot of good QB's in the NFL.


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W_Z wrote:
Nas wrote:
Forget the top 15 Rick I'm not convinced there is a QB in this draft worth taking in the 1st round. All of these guys have bust written all over them.


The sad part is this statement can be said for the past 5-10 years of QB's...don't think we can really wonder why there isn't a lot of good QB's in the NFL.


Here are the first QBs taken in each draft from 1984 to 2007

Boomer Esiason (in the 2nd round)
Randall Cunningham (2nd round)
Jim Everett
Kelly Stouffer
Chris Chandler (in 3rd round)
Troy Aikman (1st pick)
Jeff George (1st pick)
Dan McGwire (!)
David Klinger (!)
Drew Bledsoe (1st pick)
Heath Shuler
Steve McNair
Tony Banks (in 2nd round)
Jim Druckenmiller (!!)
Peyton Manning (1st pick)
Tim Couch (1st pick)
Chad Pennington
Michael Vick (1st pick)
David Carr (1st pick)
Carson Palmer (1st pick)
Eli Manning (1st pick)
Alex Smith (1st pick)
Vince Young
JaMarcus Russell

I see two "greats" (Aikman and Manning), a few good careers (Esiason, Everett, Bledsoe, Cunningham), a few decent players, and entirely too many busts. In fact, the list seems to move from consistent mediocrity to massive flameouts.

I wonder if that really means that quarterbacking is geting wose though. Some of it is selection bias- we see the really bad QBs every week right now, but we forget about the really bad ones of a decade ago. Some of it is also associating players with a couple of good seasons with a tremendous career- guys like Boomer Esiason, for example, who we'd now think "good to great player" for now but forget about the stretch of mediocre playing. Some day we'll think of guys like Hasselbeck the same way.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:23 am 
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Fantasy football has also changed the definition of great players at the QB position. It's much more about numbers now.

I honestly don't know if Troy Aikman was a great regular season QB, but I know that Peyton Manning is.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:44 am 
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Even if the Bears draft a QB, do you have the confidence in the Bears coaching staff in developing a QB, let alone picking the right one?

Look at the starting QB's in the divisional round. Four of the 8 (Gerrard, Hasselbeck, Romo and Brady) were fourth round picks or lower. Coaching seemed to be important in bringing out the best in these young QBs. Could the Bears have developed Romo, Brady or Hasselbeck? In an article last week, it was mentioned the Bears looked at bringing in Hasselbeck when he was still with the Packers. Hasselbeck decided to stay with the Packers even though there was no way he was going to supplant Favre. It was best to stay with Favre, Holmgren and his coaching staff, etc then move to the Bears. Why go from the Ivy league to community college.

The top QB's in this draft, Ryan, Woodson, Brohm seem to be projects. I don't have faith that Ron Turner and Pep Hamilton will bring out the best in these QBs.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:37 am 
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Irish Boy wrote:
W_Z wrote:
Nas wrote:
Forget the top 15 Rick I'm not convinced there is a QB in this draft worth taking in the 1st round. All of these guys have bust written all over them.


The sad part is this statement can be said for the past 5-10 years of QB's...don't think we can really wonder why there isn't a lot of good QB's in the NFL.


Here are the first QBs taken in each draft from 1984 to 2007

Boomer Esiason (in the 2nd round)
Randall Cunningham (2nd round)
Jim Everett
Kelly Stouffer
Chris Chandler (in 3rd round)
Troy Aikman (1st pick)
Jeff George (1st pick)
Dan McGwire (!)
David Klinger (!)
Drew Bledsoe (1st pick)
Heath Shuler
Steve McNair
Tony Banks (in 2nd round)
Jim Druckenmiller (!!)
Peyton Manning (1st pick)
Tim Couch (1st pick)
Chad Pennington
Michael Vick (1st pick)
David Carr (1st pick)
Carson Palmer (1st pick)
Eli Manning (1st pick)
Alex Smith (1st pick)
Vince Young
JaMarcus Russell

I see two "greats" (Aikman and Manning), a few good careers (Esiason, Everett, Bledsoe, Cunningham), a few decent players, and entirely too many busts. In fact, the list seems to move from consistent mediocrity to massive flameouts.

I wonder if that really means that quarterbacking is geting wose though. Some of it is selection bias- we see the really bad QBs every week right now, but we forget about the really bad ones of a decade ago. Some of it is also associating players with a couple of good seasons with a tremendous career- guys like Boomer Esiason, for example, who we'd now think "good to great player" for now but forget about the stretch of mediocre playing. Some day we'll think of guys like Hasselbeck the same way.


This is limited in scope. Not sure why you reduced this to just top pick QB's and not 1st rounders in general. I think you'll find that more Pro Bowl QB's come in the first round than in any other draft by a mile. I also think you'll find a 40-50% rate in which QB's are major contributors for years and maybe a 20-30% Pro Bowl rate.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:38 am 
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Woodridge Ryan wrote:
Good stuff as always BD. Good to see "Glenn" Dorsey getting a shot in your mock draft this time. My only real disagreement if I was making this list is having the Pats draft James Laurinitis. I'm convinced that's who they will take if he becomes available.


Laurinitis stays at OSU.


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I was trying to be limited in scope for a reason. My point was that these were the best college prospects at QB, and we didn't go from certain successes to constant failure. Actually, we went from regular mediocrity punctuated by failure followed by occasional brilliance surrounded by failure.

Actually, that was my second post, the first being erased by me accidentally closing the screen while looking up the drafts. My first point was the point I quickly slipped in at the end about selection bias. Choose any year at random in football, and I bet there were a similar proportion of really bad QBs playing. We just tend not to remember them.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:16 am 
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Irish Boy wrote:
I was trying to be limited in scope for a reason. My point was that these were the best college prospects at QB, and we didn't go from certain successes to constant failure. Actually, we went from regular mediocrity punctuated by failure followed by occasional brilliance surrounded by failure.

Actually, that was my second post, the first being erased by me accidentally closing the screen while looking up the drafts. My first point was the point I quickly slipped in at the end about selection bias. Choose any year at random in football, and I bet there were a similar proportion of really bad QBs playing. We just tend not to remember them.


Regardless, your best bet is in the 1st round.


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Agreed. I still wouldn't take a QB this year though, at least not one of the "big three".


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Irish Boy wrote:
Agreed. I still wouldn't take a QB this year though, at least not one of the "big three".


My thoughts on the draft will/could change depending on how free agency plays out. It's going to be an interesting off-season in Chicago.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:22 pm 
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BD wrote:
Woodridge Ryan wrote:
Good stuff as always BD. Good to see "Glenn" Dorsey getting a shot in your mock draft this time. My only real disagreement if I was making this list is having the Pats draft James Laurinitis. I'm convinced that's who they will take if he becomes available.


Laurinitis stays at OSU.


Very suprised by this. Mayb he thinks he can make himself Top 3 worthy?


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Woodridge Ryan wrote:
BD wrote:
Woodridge Ryan wrote:
Good stuff as always BD. Good to see "Glenn" Dorsey getting a shot in your mock draft this time. My only real disagreement if I was making this list is having the Pats draft James Laurinitis. I'm convinced that's who they will take if he becomes available.


Laurinitis stays at OSU.


Very suprised by this. Mayb he thinks he can make himself Top 3 worthy?


Nearly everyone stayed at Ohio St. That was the common theme outside of Gholston. They will have 23 starters back next season, and another top recruting class. Good times ahead for Ohio St.


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FavreFan wrote:
Wouldnt the Pats try to get an LB? The LB corps is playing well but they will need to get younger and more athletic sooner rather than later


they wouldve drafted james laurenitis but hes comin back to OSU for his senior year


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