They are done. My childhood must be officially over I guess. Everyone knows who I'm picking. Everyone knows Nas is picking the wrong guy. My guy Duncan was the best player on 4 title teams, beating Kobe, and tied him with overall rings with 5, so Kobe fans unexpectedly can't use the ring argument. Duncan was better statistically. At his best, Duncan could also win you the game in the closing seconds, unlike many big men. He never missed the playoffs. Although he flirted with Orlando in'03, he never demanded a trade. Tim Duncan is the 2nd best basketball player I've ever seen play, and arguably the best since my earliest basketball memory is the 1993 NBA Finals. I got Duncan. Who ya got?

Either way it goes, it sorta sucks that we are done watching them play.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I voted Duncan. Kobe was the more exciting player to watch and put up eye-popping stats, but Timmy was a model of consistency. So technically sound with a high BB IQ, making all his teammates better. It is unfortunate with the rise of the Warriors, he was kept off the court for the majority of the time last year.

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Sherman remarked, "Well, Grant, we've had the devil's own day, haven't we?" Grant looked up. "Yes," he replied, followed by a puff. "Yes. Lick 'em tomorrow, though."

overall i gotta go with kobe on this one.

obviously they're really really close in just about every aspect. both have 5 rings. both won said rings early and relatively/later in their careers with different "supporting casts." both scored a metric assload of points over their ~19-20yr careers, both were obviously considered top top players of their (mutual) era. but where the difference comes in is that kobe was some kind of international media sensation/superstar/BRAND/product/etc and tim duncan was pretty much just a basketball player who didn't really worry about endorsements or limelight or seemingly "getting his due" as one of the all time greats and whatnot; tim duncan was a throwback to the pre-bird/magic days in the NBA; tim duncan just played basketball.

off the top of your head can you ever remember anyone you know/of showing off a new pair of shoes like "check it out i got the new tim duncans?" nope. i think he might have had some kind of endorsement deal with adidas but it's something you'd have to look up. obviously kobe was the complete opposite of that, even if his "mamba" line was never as ubiquitous as the air jordan brand. still, you can go watch rush hour 2 and when chris tucker runs by the chinese lady in the tight stairway she doesn't say "watch it duncan" --- she says "watch it kobe!" --- that has to count for something IMO.

all things considered i'd give the slight nod to kobe cuz he ended up being the face of the NBA for a good ~5-10yrs (depending on when you want to say lebron officially took that over)-- but that's just my personal semantics/definition/etc and ultimately this comes down to whether or not you believe that being "the face of the NBA" along with a shit-ton of endorsement deals has any sort of additional value. if it does then it's kobe. if it doesn't then it's duncan. c'est la vie.

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#NeverKobe

Tim Duncan. Single handedly changed the way people look at the San Antonio Spurs. Before he got there they were a team that never plates in any many meaningful games. Their previous "face of the franchise" was a guy that historically came up small in big games.

Duncan changed that perception. He won championships when they had nothing else. He won championships in years when the Lakers had the best team. He won championships with guys like Bowen and Avery starting and Danny Ferry playing prominent roles.

When he came into the league the Power forward position was the glamour position in the league and he managed to separate himself from all of the other guys.

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He was basically a center though...

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No he wasn't, particularly during the early yrs.

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He was considered a power forward because David Robinson was there. That label stuck for a while but he's been a center for a long time if not his whole post-Robinson career.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gregg-popovich-once-said-tim-224945080.html

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

During the earlier yrs they would keep a big stiff to play center i.e. Rasha and Nazr. Duncan rarely guarded Shaq. Duncan became more of a center during the later yes but when he had Robinson, Nesterovic, and Nazr on the team he played the 4. He used to guard the Rasheed, Garnett, and Nowitski types earlier in his career.

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Nazr started 35 out of 103 games for the Spurs with under 20 mpg. Rasha started most of the time but he still only did about 25 mpg to Duncans 35 mpg.

If Duncan is a power forward then so is Hakeem and any other versatile center.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I don't want to grind this down into was he or wasn't he a PF. If that's the game you wish to play feel free. The Duncan is a Center argument only came into vogue later in his career. Guys that watched the games know which position he was guarding. It wasn't center.

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Well his coach for his whole career disagrees.

But you probably know better than him.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No I don't and in the article you cited they clearly stated that Popovich may he said it in "jest". The players, you know the guys that actually played against him including Shaquille Oneal and Charles Barkely, considered him a PF. But you probably know more than them.

In addition Your Hakeem analogy makes no sense since Hakeem always guarded centers. You would know that if you actually watched games. It wasn't about being "versatile". That had nothing to do with it.

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Duncan didn't guard Shaq because he couldn't.

Basketball reference lists Duncan as a Center for roughly half his career, and for the beginning of his career he played center a lot since after Robinson retired they had "centers" that didn't play big minutes.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm sure you can figure this one out.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... 9Gk7wXCz7w

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... DvcS1K69tg

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=w ... nZtfeoZaXg

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Are you saying being a center is height based only?

Lots of guys struggled with the size of Yao and Shaq.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm not saying that at all.

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What are you saying then?

Posting three random profiles doesn't mean much.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I guess it doesn't.

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So no explanation then. I guess I'll assume you know that the point you were making is bad so you won't say it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

NBA history not a strong suit?

If you look at the timeline you will see that they began listing him as a center at about the same time that Yao began to suffer foot injuries. It was also at about the same time that Shaq went to the Heat. They did it so that he would have an easier time making all star teams.

Tim Duncan is the reason that the Center position is no longer listed on All Star ballots. There weren't any good Centers and they realized that it was too easy for him to make the team (if listed as a Center) The best years of his career were spent as a PF. He guarded the best 4's in the game at that time. He wasn't even listed as a Center until he was about 30. They brought in Tiago Splitter so that Duncan wouldn't have to play Center.

I will leave it alone because it really isn't an argument I'm invested in.

In my opinion he is one of the top 10 players that I have ever seen. He also is better than Kobe. That is what this thread is about. His position is irrelevant.

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Robert Horry, 7 Rings, and he was critical to winning those rings, e.g.,





http://espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=250619008

Sure, Kobe helped Rob win 3 and Duncan was smart enough to get out of Rob's way and let Rob win him 2 Rings.

See Horry's clutch performance in Game 5 of the 2005 Finals above and recall Horry eclipsed the Sun with a simple hip-check of Steve Nash in the 2007 playoffs:

https://youtu.be/7LT_C7o5ZGM

Not making an actual point and instead trying to get everyone to guess not a strong suit? All I asked was for you to make an actual point. You did.

That is because before that Shaq and then Yao were in his way as a center even though he was playing it all the time after Robinson retired even though the Spurs had an inferior "center" who played less minutes than him by a considerable margin.

But, if you are claiming that he was a "center" since Yao started to get injured then I think my point is proven that Duncan was basically a center. Shaq went to the Heat in 2004. That is a long career at "center" for a power forward.

Well in that case we should judge him against all big men then if he was unfairly labeled a center by his people in order to make all star teams.

Oh, and if they changed the all star rules so Tim Duncan wouldn't be a starter then maybe he wasn't as good as you say.

He is a top twenty player though.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Your arguments as usual make little sense. Yao Ming didn't make all star teams because he was better than Tim Duncan.

You obviously can't tell me anything from games you "watched". The guys you cite started at Center. If you know anything about the game then you will know that they were probably replaced by guys that played center. Duncan played center throughout his career doesn't mean he was a center.

When he entered the league the power forward position was tougher than Center. He was still listed as a 4. Yao wasn't even in the league and he still wasn't a center.

Tim Duncan has never been the most popular player in the league and the all star team. He was never going to win a popularity contest with Shaq.

Tim Duncan led teams that didn't have a lot of talent to championships. That is what I based it on.

He never played with anyone as good as Pau or Shaq yet he still has 5 rings. That says a lot more than some silly all star voting.


They also changed the rule when he was about 34 or 35 yrs old. He wasnt really as good at that point. You really don't have a clue about this stuff, which isn't surprising since much of your basketball info is derived from either Bernstein or Imu.

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You spent more time saying I don't know anything than you did actually making a point. There is really nothing you posted to even respond to that was relevant to this discussion outside of him being listed as a PF when he started. Of course he did. The Spurs had a hall of fame center.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Kobe is the clear choice.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

The first 9 yrs of his career he was listed as a PF. Relevant. He was listed as a center once Shaq moved East and Yao was done. also relevant. I named the guys that actually started at center. Relevant.

You are the king of "guyx isn't really that good" if he doesn't win arguments. Now a guy with 5 rings wasn't that good either? Look at the teams particularly earlier teams that he won with. Avery Johnson, Bruce Bowen. Dany Ferry. Stephen Jackson. Look at those rosters.


He won championships without any guys in the top 5 possibly top 10 at their position. Tony Parker and Ginobili werent top five guys at their own position in the early years. Weren't arguably top 10 either.


David Robinson was at the end of his career and nothing more than a defensive presence. He also had been a playoff disappointment for most of his career. Duncan changed that.

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Where did I say Duncan wasn't very good? I just said he was basically a center, and he was after Robinson was done.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Duncan isn't even the best center of his ERA. Kobe is clearly the best SG of his era.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

They changed the rules when he was 35 yrs old. He wasn't as good at 35 as he was at 25. Also the rules change didnt just take guts like Duncan into account. They were trying to prevent guys like Roy Hibbert from making the team.

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