A "historically aberrant lack of wins"

https://theringer.com/jose-quintana-chicago-white-sox-pitcher-ace-776d1f23319f#.wsxjxbj9u

_________________

Good read.

Winning a baseball game isn't an individual achievement.

If you compared the SAT scores of Bill Gates and me you would have a hard time figuring out who was who, honestly.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Certainly not, but the two starting pitchers have an inordinate influence as compared to all other players. If you're not as good as the guy you face in the majority of your games, how good are you?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Great read. Some of those stats are laughable. I know the Sox offense doesn't intentionally try not to score runs but they really suck.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Doesn't the other team's offense just suck in Quintana's games?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Ram Academics

_________________

WE'RE FROM GORDON...

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

He has something to do with that. I don't think you can look at some of the statistics in that article and not think he's gotten a raw deal. That includes his contract too.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Gordon Tech, Weber, Mendel.....very sad.

_________________

I know he has something to do with that. You're the guy who is reluctant to credit the opposing starters who usually pitch better than he does.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

There is usually at least some merit in a pitcher's W-L record. So far during his career, Quintana seems to be the mother of all outliers in that regard. He is not an ace though. One of the better #2 guys in the game for sure, but not an ace.

_________________

I don't believe that either. If he really were a top number two guy the White Sox would be better than they are. It's like that Brian Kenny guy deemed that W/L record was meaningless and a generation of fans blindly followed until it's just become conventional wisdom with people making excuses for the atrociousness of guys like Shelby Miller.

W/L record is a measure of how a guy competed. No other pitching stat illustrates that was well. Regardless of where I'm having this argument and with whom I'm having it, it always comes down to me asking for the good or near great pitcher who has more than 200 career starts with a losing record. And that guy just doesn't exist. I know my baseball history. About the best you will be able to come up with is Joel Horlen who is a game under .500 with a lot of his other numbers looking really good. In fact, he looks similar to Quintana. But if you really know who Horlen was, where his team played, etc., you know that his numbers look so good because he pitched most of his games in places that were tombs for hitters and when it really came down to it he was just kind of mediocre. Like Jose Quintana.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

I believe it.

Normally a pitcher's record says who he is. Quitana is the one case where you can unequivocally say that he has pitched better than his career record is.

_________________

You get a pass on this one because you grew up listening to the Del-Vikings.

_________________

"Come Go With Me" was pretty good!

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

a rose by any other name

at least you aren't St. George

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

I'm sure I would have been a St. George guy if they hadn't knocked it down for a hospital parking lot.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

When you stubbornly refuse to look at anything else beyond wins and losses and compare him to Shelby Miller of course you won't change your mind. I'm not sure how any objective person can read that article and say that Quintana sucks or is at best mediocre.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

You misunderstand. I'm quite capable of looking at other things besides W/L record. But W/L record is important and it tells you a lot about a starting pitcher. Nobody has ever suffered bad luck over a career. If you're under .500 in 140 career starts, there is a problem with you.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Excellent article.

“If you compare him and I and put our numbers back to back, you would probably have a hard time figuring out who is who, honestly — other than wins and losses,” Sale told CSN Chicago. “Those are things you really can’t control.”

Kirkwood beat me to it.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Of course he can control it. Allow less than the other pitcher. But it's easier to play the victim.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

You don't think the second best pitcher in baseball knows about pitching?

Chris Sale and Jose Quintana aren't the other pitcher nor do they impact their own team's offense. There are 18 half innings. They can only control 9 of those. They have absolutely nothing to do with the other 9.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I think he's just spouting what he's been told just like all guys who constantly insist "W/L is meaningless and out of a pitcher's control" and being nice to a teammate. He seems to be suggesting all the guys that are outpitching Quintana are just wildly lucky.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

Keith Law was on 1000 yesterday, and he said that the Cubs would trade Schwarber for Quintana "in a heartbeat". Quintana is really good. Hope the rest of the team steps up around him.

_________________
Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

I'm not asking them to impact their own team's offense. But if they're good pitchers they should be able to hold the offenses they face to less runs than the opposing pitchers (most of whom you would have us believe are lesser) hold their own over half the time. If not, how good can they really be?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

If I am the Sox, I would not do this. The Sox have 2 nice good pitchers under control for a few more years, and that is hard to do.

I know that it is easier to cling to long held beliefs but facts like these say that Quintana is clearly an outlier. He hasn't pitched well because he's in a pitcher friendly park and he definitely isn't boom or bust like the Shelby Miller's of the world.

Since the start of last July, he has been the AL’s most valuable pitcher by FanGraphs WAR. In 2016, he ranks fifth in the AL in ERA, sixth in innings pitched, and third in fielding- and park-adjusted run prevention.

3 consecutive seasons in which Quintana pitched 200 innings, posted above-average numbers, and won only nine games each year.


He ranks last among AL pitchers in run support in 2016, after ranking in the bottom-seven in the league in each of his previous full seasons.

He’s earned a win in fewer than half of his career starts in which he hasn’t allowed an earned run. Over that same span, the average pitcher has won more than 75 percent of those games.

In his most recent start, he won when allowing three earned runs or more for the first time since before the 2013 All-Star break. Since then, 119 pitchers have thrown more than 300 innings; per Baseball-Reference’s Play Index, Quintana became the 118th on that list to collect such a win.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!