No. He is stating that Quintana is wildly unlucky.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Yeah for going on 4 years now.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

3 consecutive seasons in which Quintana pitched 200 innings, posted above-average numbers, and won only nine games each year.


He ranks last among AL pitchers in run support in 2016, after ranking in the bottom-seven in the league in each of his previous full seasons.

He’s earned a win in fewer than half of his career starts in which he hasn’t allowed an earned run. Over that same span, the average pitcher has won more than 75 percent of those games.

In his most recent start, he won when allowing three earned runs or more for the first time since before the 2013 All-Star break. Since then, 119 pitchers have thrown more than 300 innings; per Baseball-Reference’s Play Index, Quintana became the 118th on that list to collect such a win

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

He "doesn't exist" because a winning record is one of your major criteria in making a "very good to great" valuation. Many careers of guys with sub-.500 records but damn-good "secondary" stats have been thrown your way, but you always dismiss them as "not great" because.....they didn't "win" enough.

I'm surprised your bootstraps are strong enough to survive all that pulling.

Well, name one you think is good and we'll discuss him.

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Matt Cain Resume:

- 12 MLB seasons
- 3 Time All-Star
- 1 perfect game (w/16 K's)
- 2 time top 10 Cy Young finishes
- 2 time WS champ where he was the #2 man in the rotation
- 1500 career K's
- 6 games under .500 for his career

Just to throw out some grist for the mill.

I wouldn't call Matt Cain a guy with a good career. He had three good seasons, one of them really good. Now, maybe he would have been a good pitcher without the injuries, but it is what it is. There are very few guys that make 300 career starts that don't have some good stretches in there. Some of them have great stretches like Cain, but in the end it's a game of time and repetition.

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So Jason Marquis was better than Matt Cain? Interesting.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Well then you either don't understand how to define good, or you don't know what Matt Cain has accomplished.

As it currently stands Matt Cain is 256th in all time pitcher WAR. Think about that for a second, of the tens of thousands of people who have pitched in major league baseball over the past 120+ years, Matt Cain has been better than all but about 250 of them.

Statistically Matt Cain is in the top 1% of pitchers of all time. That's someone with a good career. You hit the top 1% of anything, and that's good.

Maybe you don't know how to define "good". Is that possible?

By your definition everyone who makes the big leagues is good. If that's the route we're going, I'll agree.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
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Do you really believe that?

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

No. Not in this case.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

You're agreeing that Wilbur Wood was better than Clayton Kershaw and you don't even realize it.

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This goes to show that you can't even comprehend the argument.

Wilbur Wood had a 114 ERA+, 3.37 FIP, 1.232 WHIP and 1.95 K/BB.

Clayton Kershaw has a 158 ERA+, 2.56 FIP, 1.012 WHIP and 3.98 K/BB.

What the fuck are you talking about?

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Fucking lol, are you referencing WAR, a cumulative statistic?

Wood pitched 19 seasons. Kershaw has pitched 9 so far. And they are about even.

You are hilarious.

Hey, Ubaldo Jimenez has more career strikeouts than Chris Sale. Jimenez > Sale.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Maybe you shouldn't insert yourself if you don't understand the fucking argument. One Post was using the premise that career accumulated WAR was how we should define the best pitchers and used said premise to declare Matt Cain the 256th best man ever to pitch in the major leagues.

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It seems you are now agreeing with me. At least to some degree. Thank you. But you are mistaken if you think Wood and Kershaw are "about even". That's just goddamn dumb. If Kershaw's arm fell off tomorrow he's a Hall of Famer.

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I'm not agreeing with you. And I've always stated no one statistic will tell the entire story. Read my post from not even an hour ago. You have to look at many statistics...the majority of those statistics will tell you what you need to know.

Their WAR's are equal. Fact. Total career WAR is relatively useless unless you have two careers with the same length. Just look at WAR averages if you want to use solely WAR.

Cain's per season / per 162 WARs are respectable. He is a pitcher that should have a winning record. Those Giants teams in the mid 2000s couldn't score.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

You stuck your nose into a discussion between me and One Post apparently without reading the thread or understanding what was happening. And yeah, Wood and Kershaw may have equal accumulative WAR, but that doesn't mean they were equal pitchers. And to say that Cain "should" have a winning record is just claptrap. He doesn't have a winning record because he faced men who pitched better than he did in the games in which they were actually competing.

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With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

JORR is wrong about Quintana. One day I expect an apology.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!

You should re-read this thread and apologize to me for your own misunderstanding. I never cited the cumulative stat of WAR to declare anyone better than anyone else. In fact, the very argument I was making was against such silliness. So maybe you should redirect your "fucking lol" to One Post instead of trying to work up a phony argument with me.

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I doubt I'm wrong, but if Quintana suddenly gets "run support" and wins more than he loses, I'll apologize. I doubt that will occur. And here's the real futility of this argument from my end. If he does get more "run support" and simply allows more runs because he's a non-competitive slug as I suspect, guys like you and JLN will simply declare that he isn't pitching as well now as he did when he was losing 2-1 instead of 6-5. So there's really no way I can win the argument.

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Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
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With Elon, Tulsi, and Don

IF 5 years from now this happens I will probably say that. Nothing in his career tells me that he's going to be that guy. However if he gets support and continues to lose I won't have a problem admitting that he isn't as good as I thought.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Well...yeah, right? Oh, that's right, you don't think pitching is "about" limiting run scoring. It is, at best, secondary to "competing" with the other starting pitcher (against whom a pitcher only directly "competes" twice a game in the NL).

Pitching is about allowing less runs than the opposing pitcher(s). A starting pitcher's first order of business is to not allow a run until his own team scores. That's a good goal. The team that scores first wins about 65% of the time.

What are your feelings about Jack Morris? I'm sure you don't consider him anywhere near as good as I do.

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JORR considers Jack Morris good.

Jack Morris career WAR = 43.8 in 18 seasons.

Jon Matlack career WAR = 39.1 in 13 seasons.

Pretty hard to dispute that by WAR those dudes are basically the same guy in terms of value.

Morris = Good
Morris = Matlack
Matlack = Good

Not for nothing, Matlack career W-L record = 125-126.

Are you a WAR zombie? Do you really believe that borderline Hall of Famer Morris was the same as Jon Matlack?

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WAR is a respected easy way to compare the performance of MLB players. I've never said that it is perfect, but it is pretty useful.

I'm the one using WAR, you are the one using the JORR Bullshit Ambiguous Good Scale, which is apparently just whatever you say it is.

I think Morris was a good pitcher, WAR bears this out, I think Matlack was a good pitcher, WAR bears this out. Matlack had a losing record.

A good pitcher with 200 starts and a losing record. It happens, not often, but it happens. Matlack, Cain being two examples here.

Show me where I said that every pitcher that makes the big leagues constitutes a good pitcher.

Just use the quote function, it should be easy for you.

Christ, you have the reading comprehension of an aardvark.

WAR is "respected"? By whom? You and a bunch of guys who read the Internet? If it's so "respected" why is there a need for different versions? Anyway, I'm not talking about the respect or value of WAR, I'm talking about blindly throwing it out there as some kind of argument ender instanter.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Elon, Tulsi, and Don