I have always been a proponent of team record in starts but it is just an extension of personal W/L as a metric.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Sorta.

Bartolo Colon has a winning record, but the Mets lose more often than not when he starts a game.

Jon Lester has a losing record, but the Cubs win more often than not when he starts a game.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I understand but it could be discounted for the same reasons. I don't discount it especially for my top pitchers. I expect those types to win games.

_________________
O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

By whatever metric you measure Arrieta's season, it has been spectacular. 20 wins, A 1.88 ERA. Just 3 starts all season not considered a quality start. If he doesn't win the Cy Young, it will only be because Greinke also has had a fabulous season and Jake will be the runner up.

_________________
Go Cubs!!!!

http://www.forbes.com/sites/evanmassey/ ... s-in-2015/

Well, clearly Evan Massey doesn't read the board. And I'm the best scout on the board. I'm the only one in the world that recognized Arrieta for what he was the day he showed up.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Is he expecting Arrieta to pitch the WC game and then take a day off and pitch Game 1?

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You know me like that.

"He" being Massey or IMU?

_________________

I love going back and reading this thread. Especially the first 10 pages.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

15-5. All this guy does is win. Easily the best pitcher in baseball. I love the W-L stat!

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Isn't Strasburg 15-4? Maybe Juice can help you understand percentages.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Earlier today...you were harping on total wins from starting pitchers.

Now it is percentage? And if so...are total starts factored in or is it based on decisions? What if Arrieta left more starts with leads than Strasburg had, but the bullpen gives it up and it becomes a no decision?

Are there any baseball thoughts you can remain consistent on?

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

J.A. Happ 17-3
Rick Porcello 16-3
Not so easy

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

No I wasn't, you prevaricating little cocksucker. I have a long history of posts on the subject and my position is well known here.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

How will Lyin' Leash spin this one??

_________________

Well, clearly JORR is upset and lashing out personally. Throw in the towel, peeps! Save your fellow subdivisioner!

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Leash was fucking with me about how many wins the Cubs starters had and I fucked with him back. The two of us knew what was going on.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

JORR jumped into the deep end. He swam 300 feet down. Realized he is out of breath...trying to race up to the surface for air. Is now at the point where he realizes he is never going to make it...now he just is trying to have some fun and see if he can punch a shark before he drowns.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Whatever that means. If your arguments were worth a fuck you wouldn't have to make shit up as much as you do.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

Make stuff up? Let's be honest...I'm just pasting numbers from BR and fangraphs. I don't have even 50% of the effort Juice does with his badass pivot tables.

The portion I'm excelling at is the analysis of those numbers. Not everyone can have that natural talent.

But go ahead and rage. It amuses me just as much as the argument itself.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

You are making shit up. I've never once said the amount of wins a guy has by itself has any meaning at all. And if you read Fangraphs as well as you read this board it's no wonder why you're so confused. But you've said it all with that post. The modern baseball fan- copies and pastes from Fangraphs and thinks he's Connie Fuckin' Mack.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

So a single pitcher's amount of wins mean nothing, but the amount of five pitcher's wins combined makes them the best starting rotation? You definitely didn't discuss winning percentage or bring up losses as we were discussing rotations.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

That was a discussion between leash and me where he brought up how many wins the Cubs pitchers were going to have just to give me a shot. I'm sorry you didn't understand what was going on.

We don't really need to keep going here because you're just going to look like a douchebag that is trying to create an argument since everyone who has ever participated in these discussions (except maybe Darkside) knows that I've said over and over ad nauseam that winning percentage is important and that 20 decisions or a even an entire season or two is an insignificant sample size.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

How many wins are required to win a Cy Young?

How many starts through a season is enough to determine that the 2016 Cubs rotation is among the greats?

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Probably at least 130-140, right? I mean it's probably not a bad idea to revisit this in 6 weeks when all the data is actually in.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

None.



There's no objective way to determine such a thing. It makes for good table talk. You can take this Cub rotation if you want. I'll take Strasburg and Scherzer and we can go from there.

_________________
Anybody here seen my old friend Bobby?
Can you tell me where he's gone?
I thought I saw him walkin' up to The Hill
With Matthew, Tulsi, and Don

_________________

JBills McCracken.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I think he repeats and wins the Cy this year.

_________________

He is #1 in the Cy Young Predictor stuff. I'm happy if he wins it...but he isn't the best pitcher on the team in 2016.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

That would be a mistake. He has had a solid year, but would not be deserving of the Cy Young in my opinion unless he goes on a great run to finish the season. He has not been the best pitcher on the team, much less in the league. One factor that has worked in his favor a few times, is that Jake has received amongst the best run support for a starting pitcher in baseball this year. Hell, Bryant has 11 HR's in starts behind Arrieta along wit 34 RBI. If he produced like that for all starters he would have 55HR and 170 RBI already. He is the reverse Quintana. I predicted that Jake would have 18 or more wins and an ERA under 3.00 and he will probably still reach those goals I set for him. But he's not the Jake of 2015. Then again, maybe he's saving his best for the post-season!

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Go Cubs!!!!