The only part I disagree with Nas is that I think if you put Brady or Manning on a high school team, they still go to the playoffs year after year. I just don't think that Anderson is anywhere near that level, and he retrogressed quite a bit as the year went on.

If I could steal one part of that Browns offense, it'd be Joe Thomas, not Derek Anderson.

Agree.

And Irish, I believe the "high school" offense reference means putting Manning or Brady on a high school offense and then play against pros. I don't think they're eligible for high school ball anymore

Yeah, I'd imagine that they'd fly through the Catholic league.

Joe Thomas, Eric Steinbach or Braylon Edwards for me.

JP Losman will be available.

For Christmas parties, Bar Mitzvahs, that sort of thing? Oh, to QB the Bears? No thank you.

Is Grossman the only guy who ever had to play with a bad line? Is Solider Field built on a burial mound and the running backs are cursed? Or does the magnetic field in Lake Forest wreck the receivers' cleats before every game?

All but a lucky few QBs have to deal with this shit every damn week.

Some of them read the defensive set and understand the hot routes. Others fumble while trying to get the hell away from the line (and then blame the All-Pro center).

Some of them keep stepping up in the pocket. Others throw shitty wobblers off the back foot.

But go on, seriously, tell me more about how great Grossman is.

This pretty much nails it, but Grossman still sucks.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

People seem to be confusing "best QB available" with "Quality starting NFL QB".

The 6 game stretch where Rex was the best QB in the league are gone and will never, ever, ever, ever be back. The other 31 NFL defensive coordinators got enough film on him and broke down his weaknesses. They figured out his tendencies and shut him down. The NFL is amazing at making adjustments to any QB. Even Tom Brady has been limited in his effectiveness as compared to the start of this season.

This is where the difference comes in. Rex Grossman either refuses to change his style of play or is incapable of it. It's not even a physical thing. Besides the fact that he is short and has trouble seeing over the line, and he's slower than I am, he has the tools to be an NFL QB. His mistakes are normally mental in nature. The phrase "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" seems to fit for him.

Given my username, people are sure to think that I'm a Kyle Orton lover, but really Orton is the better option in almost every way. He won't kill you and put the defense in terrible positions and at least some people believe that he has the potential to be a good QB. He won't ever be Peyton Manning but he will have a much better career from here on out than Rex Grossman will.

This isn't some new profound information. Rex has had half a decade to establish that he is a starting NFL QB. He couldn't do it except for a 6 game stretch. He no longer is to be considered a starting NFL QB. He's a QB with talent that is a second or third stringer that can fight for the number one spot.

I'm going to be pretty down on the Bears if Rex is our starting QB next year. He may even have a game where he plays well, but he will never fix his inconsistency problem in Chicago. A change of scenery may lead him to greater heights but it's not working in Chicago. I could see a Tyson Chandler-like "Oh no, if I don't take the coaching and play better I'll be out of the league" ascent from Rex Grossman, but it's not going to happen here.

Draft a QB in rounds 2-5, get a veteran QB or keep Griese, and keep Orton. Let all three battle it out and the winner is the starting QB.

Sadly, I expect Grossman to be wearing a Bears jersey next season, but hopefully that includes a clipboard.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yeah, I've given up on Anderson ever since JA said fixing the running game was our #1 priority.

I was just pointing out the stats. And yes I know you can make a case against Anderson but you can't just pluck elite QB's off a tree in the backyard. We got to take a chance sometime.

The Brown's WILL move Anderson. Savage (Brown GM) is just throwing up a smoke screen to drive Anderson's price up. Browns have no #1 pick this year. They have the statically 30th worst defense in football, w/out injuries. The Brown are free to resign their own players at anytime. 3 weeks have gone by since Savage made that comment yet DA's status remains the same. Remember the Cowboys resigned Patrick Clayton just 4 weeks ago. Browns are going to wait until they get the best offer then move DA.

I dont see how you can say that with absolute certainty. Both QBs suck, just in different ways. Grossman makes throws that are up there with the best of them, but he is maybe the worst decision maker in the NFL. Orton usually plays within himself and makes less mistakes by far, but he also never really makes a ton of good throws either. He seems like the smarter, but less talented QB than Rex. I would start Orton over Rex right now, but they wont win alot of games with him unless they get a great D and a great running game and keep him to about 15 passes a game.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

He's RFA Thug. His being resigned can be wholly controlled by the Browns organization along already prescribed boundaries. They don't necessarily want a long term deal because it might be fool's gold.

Rex has had half a decade to prove that he can play. He has been unable to do it. I'd be saying the same thing no matter who the backup is. He does not have the ability to play within himself. I'm basically predicting Rex to always be a bust in Chicago, and unless he finds the perfect situation with another team or gets scared of being out of the NFL and figures it out, a bust anywhere.

Kyle Orton showed some signs of playing well in the last 2 games. I don't think you can judge any QB based off of his play as a rookie especially one drafted to hold a clipboard that year. I didn't see enough to even call for Orton to be the starter next year over anyone but Rex, but I think Orton will improve over the summer and if he has a chance to work with the first team for a whole preseason then he will do well.

Having a brighter future than Rex Grossman doesn't mean that Orton is a NFL starting QB. He may be but he also might not.

I think Kyle Orton will benefit from playing QB in the NFL as the chosen QB and not the QB thrown in there for injury or lack of playoff hopes.

_________________
You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

A couple people have made a great point about the difference between a great QB and a reliable placeholder.

That's my whole point with Grossman. He does not manage games. He has never shown a willingness to do so. At the risk of damning with faint praise, Orton is a game manager.

To borrow the car analogy: Tony Stewart won't win at Daytona if his car sucks. But he'll drive that car a hell of a lot better than I could. Who gets the keys?

I would think that Briggs would fit that role in NE. He has to decide which is most important, the ring or the money.

Theres no doubt in my mind its the money for him. He would rather make $10 million/year on a 4-12 team for the next 10 years then be a piece on the Pats and maybe win 2-3 rings.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

That's right. Browns could have either 1. Max tendered him. Which means they offer DA a 2.3m contract for 1 year. If another club wants to match they have to give up a 1st and 3rd. Browns could tender less but then receive less should another team match. OR 2. Resign DA to a long term contract.

As of this moment nothing has been done. If the Brown's walk matched their talk they would have already signed DA up to a new contract. They haven't and free agency begins in 3 1/2 weeks. At that time teams will be able to make offers for DA. I think the Browns will make a decision by then to either max tender him as a RFA or sign him up long term.

2008 NFL Mock Draft (to Chicago at #14):

1. Dolphins - Chris Long - DE - Virginia - I still think that with a great workout, Dorsey could emerge as the guy here. But the fact remains that DE is a more valuable position in the league and Long is the total package. He is ideally suited in a 3-4 or a 4-3 at the position and was incredibly productive in College. Also, with this Father's pedigree behind him, Long may be too much for Miami to pass up.

2. Rams - Glenn Dorsey - DT - LSU - Even if he does fall, I don't see him falling far. The Dolphins and the Rams look like they are going to wind up basically flipping a coin for who gets who when it comes to two very high quality D-lineman. Dorsey is a force and can make an immediate impact on a very weak Rams defensive front line. The focus has got to be on addressing the defense with a gamebreaker, as they won't win games 35-28 in 2008.

3. Falcons - Darren McFadden - RB - Arkansas - If they wind up with the #3 pick, the Falcons hold all of the cards. Most assume that they will take Matt Ryan with this pick, but I think that would be insane. You have a shot at a guy like Darren McFadden with the #3 pick in the draft and have an aging Warrick Dunn, who is likely to be released, I think it would be a mistake to take anyone other. McFadden is the guy here at this point.

4. Raiders - Sedrick Ellis - DT - USC - Ellis is climbing up draft boards and the Raiders might reach a bit here to take him. Ellis would be an adequate replacement for a retiring Warren Sapp. The Raiders are building an offense around a young QB, but they can't give up on their defense either. They need playmakers on that defensive front and Ellis could be that guy.

5. Chiefs - Jake Long - OT - Michigan - Sure, Matt Ryan could be tempting here for the Chiefs, but they have a pair of youngsters and even though a third might give them a great chance of one of them panning out, it could also muddle the development of what's there and become a quagmire. Instead, why not find your LT of the future, and give the guy who wins the job somebody to protect is backside for the next decade?

6. Jets - Vernon Gholston - DE/OLB - Ohio State - The Jets need that impact OLB/DE hybrid type player on this defense. Gholston has a chance to prove he can run like a LB and bench like a DE at the combine. Most expect him to do just that. If he does, he should be a lock in the top 10 and the Jets are an ideal fit for him.

7. Patriots via 49ers - Derrick Harvey - DE - Florida - The Patriots are trying to fill voids in free agency so that they can walk into the draft and use their top 10 pick to take the best player available. With Tom Brady, I'm guessing they won't spend top 10 money on a free falling QB like Matt Ryan, but a speed rusher like Derrick Harvey could be the guy. He provides another weapon on defense for Parcells to move around like a little chess piece.

8. Ravens - Matt Ryan - QB - Boston College - Matt Ryan will not slip past this point. If the Ravens have a shot at landing the top QB on the board this late in the draft, they will pounce on him and cross their fingers. Ryan is showing what scouts are referring to as "moxie", which is a general term for playing with confidence. The reality is that this is a weak QB class (or it appears to be), but the Ravens have little choice.

9. Bengals - Keith Rivers - LB - USC - The Bengals need to add playmakers on defense and Rivers is an ideal fit for them. He could be the top LB in this draft depending on how things go over the next month or two and he would be a welcome addition to a struggling Bengal defense in need of a versatile weapon back there. LB is a nice safety pick as high picks tend to pan out more often than not.

10. Saints - Leodis McKelvin - CB - Troy - McKelvin could emerge as the top CB in this draft. He is considered a possible shut down cover guy who can also return kicks. That could allow Reggie Bush to focus on offense and try and justify the $50 million they paid him. McKelvin, or some other CB, is a huge commodity for a Saints team that couldn't stop anybody and who were oftened embarrassed by opposing teams top flight guys.

11. Bills - Phillip Merling - DE - Clemson - Merling could be the top pass rushing DE in the league. He has some off the field issues, but his talent could be too much for a team like Buffalo to pass up. Merling can team with any DE in the league and create a very impressive one-two punch. Buffalo may try and mirror what New York did defensively. They have a young LB and DT unit to pair with this kid.

12. Broncos - Ryan Clady - OT - BYU - Yes, I realize that the QB's are still slipping, but you had to believe this was a possibility once the slipped past Kansas City. Clady is a comfort pick. The Broncos O-line needs some youth and depth added to it. Their franchise is built around it and they have to protect their young QB for the forseeable future. Clady is the #2 OT at this point and would be a nice addition to this club.

13. Panthers - Brian Brohm - QB - Louisville - This is far from a lock. If Brohm is available, I'm not sure the Panthers can pass. Brohm is a student of the game. He has been since day one, but he will need solid performances, both at individual workouts as well as the combine, to justify a pick this high. Ultimately, at this point, I don't think he slips out of the top 13.

14. Bears - Jeff Otah - OT - Pittsburgh - This guy is huge, can play RT or LT, and has played very well despite limited experience playing the game. Otah has the ability to develop into an elite level LT based on what he has accomplished so far with his limited experience. With the loss of Fred Miller, you have to believe the Bears are lining up for the possibility that they may need to draft a Tackle. Look for them to try and address this in free agency with a guy like Max Starks. If they can, guys like Jonathan Stewart, DeSean Jackson, Kenny Phillips, Mario Manningham, Malcolm Kelly, Limas Sweed, and Rashard Mendenhall become interesting possibilities. Let's see who moves up and down the draft board at the combine.

Shame on you BD.

I'm starting to think Jonathan Stewart will be the Bears guy. I still think OT is the way to go and would be very happy with Otah. I would rather have Clady.