This is mainly a question for JORR and America since they seem to be under the misguided belief this isn't a 3+ year rebuild, but everyone obviously feel free to answer.

I can't really answer the question since I guarantee KW and Hahn don't even know the answer. My guess is they don't make the playoffs before 2022 and that's being kind.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

2037

Next question.

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They've been trying to be competitive for a while, haven't they? For whatever reason their approach hasn't worked, save for one year. Selling off every veteran productive player might be a tank job, but trading your ace (one player on a 25 man roster) isn't tantamount to throwing in the towel.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

It depends on luck & Ryan Dempster.

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Proud to be UNVERIFIED.

They traded their ace and their best position player, and are trying to move anyone else of value. Are you serious? Maybe I should bring this over to Ugie's thread.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

they have never really attempted to be competitive. this is the problem with your thought process.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

I believe they will attempt to be competitive in 2018. A one year rebuild isn't that big of a deal.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Well, trading one of the best pitchers in all of baseball doesn't scream "we want to compete next year."

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You're wrong. There is absolutely nothing so far over the past week suggesting they want to be competitive in 2018.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Sure, they're going to trade all these young guys they got for aging vets so they can compete in 2018.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Management has attempted every year since 2001. They just fail at actually being competitive.

The Sox won't make the playoffs til 2022, 7 months after Reinsdorph dies. They won't win a world series for decades.

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I predict at least 3 of the people they have traded for or will trade for will be on the MLB team in 2018. They may have to force some of them to "work on throwing to first base" for the first 8 games or so but they will be there.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

This is clearly wrong. You seem to be confusing "tried and failed" with "never tried"

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Not always!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

So? That doesn't address the post you quoted that I disagreed with you on.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Yes it does.

If you just want to whine and complain go ahead but at least put some actual content behind it.

When these guys show up on the MLB roster in good numbers they are attempting to be competitive.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You have three guys that you mentioned, none of who have shown anything at the MLB level whatsoever, as the basis for your case. The rest of the roster looks like absolutely AAA quality outside of Quintana and Abreu, both of whom are likely to be gone by April of 2018. Hahn himself has said in the past 2 days that 4-5 years sounds like a proper rebuild.

Please provide me with your content that says the Sox will be competitive in 2018. This is a argument even you can't win.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

5 of the 7 players they acquired have an ETA of 2018 or before

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

They'll begin sniffing playoff contention in 2020. I think the pitching could be good as soon as 2018. But it'll take time to identify 9 guys to fill the lineup.

So?

Your post isn't a rebuttal to mine. If you wanted it to be, please elaborate so I can respond to something.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I did. In 2018, they will start bringing these guys up rather than stashing them in the minors like most of the tanking teams do. They also will be somewhat active in a free agent market that I believe is supposed to be really good. There will be at least 5 players from these trades(obviously, assuming more is done for Quintana and Abreu) by 2019.

Now give me your definition of attempting to be competitive.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

the sox try to be competitive like I try to be a world class marathoner. "I tried but the results just weren't what I was hoping for."

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

2020 seems like (a) a pretty good +/- point for them being competitive, and (b) an outdated television show.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

I think the Sox are going to attempt what the Cubs would not...fill in with free agents and try to be competitive WHILE they rebuild. I could see them TRYING to contend by 2018, for sure. They will spend. The Cubs would not.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

I think we're talking about a few different things: competitiveness vs tanking

I read board reaction to the Sale trade as "the Sox are tanking." If the Sox continue to dump more veteran talent after Sale and Eaton for prospects, sure, this may be clear evidence of tanking. But it's going to have to be more than just two players to say they're tanking.

To LYK's point, sure, trading Sale doesn't scream we want to compete next year, but I don't think they would have "competed" next year even with Sale. This was a 78-84 team with Sale, 11 games behind the WC leader and 16 games behind first place in the central, and unless they continue to deplete the major league roster through trades, I'm not sure if the drop off between 78-84 and whatever they're going to be next year is doing to be that steep. So I guess I'm not even sure if they were competitive to begin with.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

The last big free agent splash the sox made was 20 years ago!

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

Attempting to be competitive = trying to fill out as many holes in your roster as possible. It does not mean bringing up 5 guys in their first or maybe 2nd year of MLB and having nothing else.

Let's be clear. Are you disagreeing with Rick Hahn and saying that the team already is three years ahead of schedule?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow?

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Did you not see Rick's post? They will make a dozen big signings next summer and be geared up to go in 2018!

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul