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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Wizards @ Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:23 am 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:

. They'd eke out a few more wins with a better coach but that would be about it.


That matters.


. The Bulls biggest issue isn't coaching. People overrate that and it's the biggest reason for the Thibs bashing. Vinny Del Negro is universally panned as a crappy coach. Most people would be astounded to know that he has won 53% of his games as a coach. Why? He had good talent with the Bulls and great talent with the Clippers.


I don't think people overrate coaching, I think you underrate it.

The better question with regard to your Vinny example is why did Vinny only win 53% (which isn't good, by the way) of his games in Chicago and LA when his successors in both cities outpaced him with virtually the same rosters? The answer is because Vinny isn't a good coach and Thibs and Doc are good coaches. If Vinny coaches the All Pro NBA team he would lose in a seven game series to Pop's Spurs or Kerr's Warriors. Not so if the All Pro team has a good coach.


Vinny Del Negro won the exact same number of games in his last year as Doc won in his first year. Kerr isn't really a good example either. Luke Walton coached that roster and got equal if not better results. The Bulls were young under Vinny and if you are going to use the Young excuse with the Wolves then it should be afforded the Bulls too. Rose was in his first two seasons.

I think all of the named coaches are better than Vinny but he was able to win with talent. 53% is good for a crappy coach. I guarantee it is better than that of a number of more highly regarded coaches namely Scott Skiles.


Skiles was definitely better than Vinny.

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ZephMarshack
 Post subject: Re: Wizards @ Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:38 am 
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long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Isn't it funny how everyone wanted Rose gone. Jimmy's team. Where in the hell does that get you?

Almost as funny as those who suggested Hoiberg hadn't gotten a fair chance last year. Tonight was another great display of his legendary pace and space offense.



Anyone that thinks the Bulls biggest issue is coaching is being foolish. That is not to say that he is a good coach. This is a .500 team playing .500 ball. They'd eke out a few more wins with a better coach but that would be about it.

I agree, the biggest issue is the front office, which appears no more competent at selecting coaches than constructing a roster.
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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Wizards @ Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:42 am 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Isn't it funny how everyone wanted Rose gone. Jimmy's team. Where in the hell does that get you?

Almost as funny as those who suggested Hoiberg hadn't gotten a fair chance last year. Tonight was another great display of his legendary pace and space offense.



Anyone that thinks the Bulls biggest issue is coaching is being foolish. That is not to say that he is a good coach. This is a .500 team playing .500 ball. They'd eke out a few more wins with a better coach but that would be about it.

I agree, the biggest issue is the front office, which appears no more competent at selecting coaches than constructing a roster.


Forman has to be fired

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: Wizards @ Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:13 am 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:

. They'd eke out a few more wins with a better coach but that would be about it.


That matters.


. The Bulls biggest issue isn't coaching. People overrate that and it's the biggest reason for the Thibs bashing. Vinny Del Negro is universally panned as a crappy coach. Most people would be astounded to know that he has won 53% of his games as a coach. Why? He had good talent with the Bulls and great talent with the Clippers.


I don't think people overrate coaching, I think you underrate it.

The better question with regard to your Vinny example is why did Vinny only win 53% (which isn't good, by the way) of his games in Chicago and LA when his successors in both cities outpaced him with virtually the same rosters? The answer is because Vinny isn't a good coach and Thibs and Doc are good coaches. If Vinny coaches the All Pro NBA team he would lose in a seven game series to Pop's Spurs or Kerr's Warriors. Not so if the All Pro team has a good coach.


Vinny Del Negro won the exact same number of games in his last year as Doc won in his first year. Kerr isn't really a good example either. Luke Walton coached that roster and got equal if not better results. The Bulls were young under Vinny and if you are going to use the Young excuse with the Wolves then it should be afforded the Bulls too. Rose was in his first two seasons.

I think all of the named coaches are better than Vinny but he was able to win with talent. 53% is good for a crappy coach. I guarantee it is better than that of a number of more highly regarded coaches namely Scott Skiles.


Skiles was definitely better than Vinny.



Skiles only won 43% of his games

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Wizards @ Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:22 am 
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Skiles developed MANY of the guys Vinny inherited except Rose. Vinny went to places where the teams had good players with experience. Also he has a .499 record

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: Wizards @ Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:40 am 
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Nas wrote:
Skiles developed MANY of the guys Vinny inherited except Rose. Vinny went to places where the teams had good players with experience. Also he has a .499 record


http://www.basketball-reference.com/coa ... sc01c.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/coa ... vi01c.html

That argument can be made of any coach. Rose and Noah "developed" under Vinny then.

Looked at the wrong numbers on Skiles. Vinny still has a better record though.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Wizards @ Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:46 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Skiles developed MANY of the guys Vinny inherited except Rose. Vinny went to places where the teams had good players with experience. Also he has a .499 record


http://www.basketball-reference.com/coa ... sc01c.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/coa ... vi01c.html

That argument can be made of any coach. Rose and Noah "developed" under Vinny then.

Looked at the wrong numbers on Skiles. Vinny still has a better record though.


Vinny never coached an extremely young or shit team. Anyone who is half way objective wouldn't say Vinny was a better coach than Skiles. I'm not interested in having that debate either. Merry Christmas to you and your family my friend.

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: Wizards @ Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:52 am 
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Nas wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
Skiles developed MANY of the guys Vinny inherited except Rose. Vinny went to places where the teams had good players with experience. Also he has a .499 record


http://www.basketball-reference.com/coa ... sc01c.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/coa ... vi01c.html

That argument can be made of any coach. Rose and Noah "developed" under Vinny then.

Looked at the wrong numbers on Skiles. Vinny still has a better record though.


Vinny never coached an extremely young or shit team. Anyone who is half way objective wouldn't say Vinny was a better coach than Skiles. I'm not interested in having that debate either. Merry Christmas to you and your family my friend.


I'm not either to be honest. Either coaching compensates for bad talent or it doesn't. It can't just be when the situation is the right one.

Happy Holidays to you and yours as well.

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Matches Malone
 Post subject: Re: Wizards @ Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:10 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Isn't it funny how everyone wanted Rose gone. Jimmy's team. Where in the hell does that get you?


Everyone knows that this team, whether it's Rose and Jimmy or Jimmy and whomever, is at best a second round playoff team. And they won't even be that this year. The Knicks can have Rose and his damn meetings. That ship sailed a long ass time ago. Westbrook's legacy will be ten times better.


I'd have kept him for one more year though. Playing for a contract. I thought they were going to blow it up but they didnt. Can't build around Butler. Not good enough for that. If people necessarily want that then be prepared to watch a lot of mediocre basketball.

I think the jury on Butler being the "Man" is still out.

I'm with vegan regarding Rose. It was time to move on. And I think the whispers of him and Butler not being the best of friends had a lot to do with it happening prior to his contract coming to an end. Maybe if they had better chemistry then the F.O. let's it ride for one more year, though I think they had already made up their mind that they weren't going to re-sign Rose or Noah for that matter.
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veganfan21
 Post subject: Re: Wizards @ Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:15 pm 
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Matches Malone wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Isn't it funny how everyone wanted Rose gone. Jimmy's team. Where in the hell does that get you?


Everyone knows that this team, whether it's Rose and Jimmy or Jimmy and whomever, is at best a second round playoff team. And they won't even be that this year. The Knicks can have Rose and his damn meetings. That ship sailed a long ass time ago. Westbrook's legacy will be ten times better.


I'd have kept him for one more year though. Playing for a contract. I thought they were going to blow it up but they didnt. Can't build around Butler. Not good enough for that. If people necessarily want that then be prepared to watch a lot of mediocre basketball.

I think the jury on Butler being the "Man" is still out.

I'm with vegan regarding Rose. It was time to move on. And I think the whispers of him and Butler not being the best of friends had a lot to do with it happening prior to his contract coming to an end. Maybe if they had better chemistry then the F.O. let's it ride for one more year, though I think they had already made up their mind that they weren't going to re-sign Rose or Noah for that matter.


Plus wanting Rose gone isn't the same as saying/believing Jimmy is a no 1. Jimmy isn't a no. 1 and Rose is no longer a star. I also wonder if Derrick's legal case had anything to do with the move. Regardless, as MM says, it was time to move on - he just isn't the same.

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long time guy
 Post subject: Re: Wizards @ Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:13 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Isn't it funny how everyone wanted Rose gone. Jimmy's team. Where in the hell does that get you?


Everyone knows that this team, whether it's Rose and Jimmy or Jimmy and whomever, is at best a second round playoff team. And they won't even be that this year. The Knicks can have Rose and his damn meetings. That ship sailed a long ass time ago. Westbrook's legacy will be ten times better.


I'd have kept him for one more year though. Playing for a contract. I thought they were going to blow it up but they didnt. Can't build around Butler. Not good enough for that. If people necessarily want that then be prepared to watch a lot of mediocre basketball.

I think the jury on Butler being the "Man" is still out.

I'm with vegan regarding Rose. It was time to move on. And I think the whispers of him and Butler not being the best of friends had a lot to do with it happening prior to his contract coming to an end. Maybe if they had better chemistry then the F.O. let's it ride for one more year, though I think they had already made up their mind that they weren't going to re-sign Rose or Noah for that matter.


Plus wanting Rose gone isn't the same as saying/believing Jimmy is a no 1. Jimmy isn't a no. 1 and Rose is no longer a star. I also wonder if Derrick's legal case had anything to do with the move. Regardless, as MM says, it was time to move on - he just isn't the same.


If you move Rose you have to move Butler. For no other reason than you probably get a nice haul for him. Building around Jimmy Butler gets you nowhere and it'd probably be better to go into full tank mode. If they keep Butler then you keep Rose for the purpose of fielding a more competitive team. The behind the scene stuff didn't really concern me as much.

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 Post subject: Re: Wizards @ Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:37 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
I have paid zero attention to the Wiz the last couple of years. What has happened to them? Weren't they considered an up and coming team not too long ago with the duo in the backcourt

You keep on bringing it every single day! Poster of the Year :roll:

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Walt Williams Neck
 Post subject: Re: Wizards @ Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:54 pm 
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Life passes Chicago by again....the league is a 3 point shooting league....and Da Bulls have none! Worst in the leaugue...no 1/2 court offense no D and this is what you have :D

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IMU
 Post subject: Re: Wizards @ Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:37 pm 
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Wade ripping Hoiberg...the boat is taking on water rapidly.

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Nas
 Post subject: Re: Wizards @ Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:18 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Matches Malone wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Isn't it funny how everyone wanted Rose gone. Jimmy's team. Where in the hell does that get you?


Everyone knows that this team, whether it's Rose and Jimmy or Jimmy and whomever, is at best a second round playoff team. And they won't even be that this year. The Knicks can have Rose and his damn meetings. That ship sailed a long ass time ago. Westbrook's legacy will be ten times better.


I'd have kept him for one more year though. Playing for a contract. I thought they were going to blow it up but they didnt. Can't build around Butler. Not good enough for that. If people necessarily want that then be prepared to watch a lot of mediocre basketball.

I think the jury on Butler being the "Man" is still out.

I'm with vegan regarding Rose. It was time to move on. And I think the whispers of him and Butler not being the best of friends had a lot to do with it happening prior to his contract coming to an end. Maybe if they had better chemistry then the F.O. let's it ride for one more year, though I think they had already made up their mind that they weren't going to re-sign Rose or Noah for that matter.


Plus wanting Rose gone isn't the same as saying/believing Jimmy is a no 1. Jimmy isn't a no. 1 and Rose is no longer a star. I also wonder if Derrick's legal case had anything to do with the move. Regardless, as MM says, it was time to move on - he just isn't the same.


If you move Rose you have to move Butler. For no other reason than you probably get a nice haul for him. Building around Jimmy Butler gets you nowhere and it'd probably be better to go into full tank mode. If they keep Butler then you keep Rose for the purpose of fielding a more competitive team. The behind the scene stuff didn't really concern me as much.



I'll take Wade over Rose

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Walt Williams Neck
 Post subject: Re: Wizards @ Bulls
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:51 pm 
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Everyone knows that this team, whether it's Rose and Jimmy or Jimmy and whomever, is at best a second round playoff team. And they won't even be that this year. The Knicks can have Rose and his damn meetings. That ship sailed a long ass time ago. Westbrook's legacy will be ten times better.[/quote]

I'd have kept him for one more year though. Playing for a contract. I thought they were going to blow it up but they didnt. Can't build around Butler. Not good enough for that. If people necessarily want that then be prepared to watch a lot of mediocre basketball.[/quote]
I think the jury on Butler being the "Man" is still out.

I'm with vegan regarding Rose. It was time to move on. And I think the whispers of him and Butler not being the best of friends had a lot to do with it happening prior to his contract coming to an end. Maybe if they had better chemistry then the F.O. let's it ride for one more year, though I think they had already made up their mind that they weren't going to re-sign Rose or Noah for that matter.[/quote]

Plus wanting Rose gone isn't the same as saying/believing Jimmy is a no 1. Jimmy isn't a no. 1 and Rose is no longer a star. I also wonder if Derrick's legal case had anything to do with the move. Regardless, as MM says, it was time to move on - he just isn't the same.[/quote]

If you move Rose you have to move Butler. For no other reason than you probably get a nice haul for him. Building around Jimmy Butler gets you nowhere and it'd probably be better to go into full tank mode. If they keep Butler then you keep Rose for the purpose of fielding a more competitive team. The behind the scene stuff didn't really concern me as much.[/quote]


I'll take Wade over Rose[/quote]
right now you can have both of em

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

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