Agreed. I haven't been on this board for too long, and I don't post much, but I feel like I argue this with Rick every year.


Nothing -nothing- will set a team back more than over drafting a QB. When you're in the Bears position you can't afford to throw away high value picks. You have to do your best to hit on them.

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If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

look again. I'm saying within the first 5 picks,don't waste it on a O-Lineman and the Cowboys didn't.

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favrefan said:"Chris Coghlan isn't gonna pay your rent, Jimmy."

Not drafting a quarterback sets you back more. At least if you draft a quarterback you have a chance he becomes elite. Put together a list of the top 10 franchises you would most like to be. Almost all of them have great to hall of fame quarterbacks. What gives you the best chance of getting one of those?

The Bears fan base collectively went crazy over an average Jay Cutler and threw away a bunch of picks for him and yet now it would be a problem to get one of the two best quarterbacks in a draft when you desperately need one for the future?

But hey, maybe drafting the guy who is well known because he returns kicks in a league doing everything they can to lessen the value of kick returners!

I don't get why everyone is so afraid of drafting and failing with a first round quarterback. Yeah, you may suck but you may suck with any player you draft and no position has the upside of a quarterback.

Since Jim McMahon in 1982, the Bears have drafted a quarterback in the first round three times. How well has that worked out for them? This was while for most of that time they had no good long term answer at the position.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

If you are bad enough to be in the top 5, you don't have a QB or you just drafted one. You will continue to be bad and continue to get high picks as your QB develops. If the QB does not develop, you still have high picks that hopefully have developed...and you'll still suck, so you take another QB after 3 years.

I think we can agree that the Bears rookies & 2nd year guys have been the only encouraging and enjoyable part of watching this year.

I want DeShone Kizer. He runs an actual pro offense.

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@audioidkid

I agree with you that if it is going to be a QB it should be Kizer. He was great before he got coached up by Kelly.

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

Wait until Loggains gets a hold of him. MVP.

I would like to see Loggans gone and quickly scoop up Mike Mc Coy is the Chargers fire him

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O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason.

(Pro Bowl QB) Trubisky with 2 picks, 1 a pick 6.

I got North Carolina +3 to keep me interested in seeing what Trubinsky is all about. He just took a dumbass sack for a loss of 15 yards. Plenty of time to throw it away. 25 to the 40. Out of field goal range for the punt. So far, I see nothing special through 51 minutes.

I thought the same thing. I'm not sure how good Stanford's D is but he hasn't looked like someone who is rising up the draft boards.

Didn't catch the game but I've seen him a few times this year, outside of torching Lovie he's looked pretty pedestrian, a project that has no business getting taken in the first 20 picks( and he's the top college QB) that's why there is no way in hell the Bears should reach for a QB this year in the first 5 picks.

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Let's walk back a little of this revisionist history. Sure Cutler has been a disappointment with the Bears, and has been average at best, but the year before the Bears acquired him from Denver he completed 62% of his passes for 4500+ yards with 25 TDs (18 Ints).....all at the age of 25. That's not an average QB, that's a really good season from a young QB that you expect to build on.

Granted that didn't happen, but lets not act like the Bears and Bears fans went bonkers over acquiring a Ryan Fitzpatrick type.

You are choosing the wrong guy to argue with what Cutler was at the time of the trade. If you thought he was anything but average that is on you. He had a lot of work to do to improve.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

He was what you and I thought he was. No one wanted to listen.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'll help you out above...

Thanks for letting me know his age.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You're advocating that the Bears spend the #3 pick on a 21 year old QB with a spotty record at best versus 18 and 19 year olds.

Yet the Bears sent the 18th pick, a future #1 and a pile of shit for a 25 year old who in the year prior tore up the top 1% of football defenders and you claim that it was a folly trade?

Again, we all agree the Cutler deal didn't work out as planned, but given the scenarios above, most anyone would rather have the 25 year old deal than drafting your run of the mill Bortles, Russell, Bradford, Manuel, etc.

Especially in light of the hauls that the Rams and the Titans got for their top picks, the Bears made a stellar deal. Again, it didn't work out like everyone hoped, but the trade for the 25 year old who dominated the AFC West is the better odds on play than drafting the guy who lit up Coastal Carolina.

So I'll say this B-Rick, if you said at the time of the deal that Cutler was no more than an average QB, congratulations to you. Although I'd speculate that call was based less on acute sports knowledge (and your posts in the Cubs forum over the past two plus years will show that you indeed have very little acute sports knowledge) and more based on dumb luck. So you good on you for the call on Cutler.

But if you're shitting on the Cutler deal (not based on hindsight) and advocating rolling the dice with some QB in the top 10 of the NFL draft, you either don't understand competition differential, or are dumb.

lol



Cutler is the perfect example of how much the wrong QB can set back your franchise. You waste draft picks you don't need or otherwise would have used on another need in hopes to 'build around' said QB. Coaching change after coaching change, coordinator after coordinator. 8 years can go by -like it has here already.

That's exactly what could happen when you over reach for a guy.


I'm all for drafting a QB highly -if they think he's the guy. But if not, it's a terrible idea to reach for one just because. They're better off taking the best player on the board if that QB is a reach at that position in the draft.


You ask me which franchise id like the Bears to be? Well, not one of those franchises -the Patriots, the Packers, Indy got good by reaching for QB's when they couldn't afford to. Brady was a nobody late round pick (so, not a reach), the Packers already had a still prime Favre when they went after Rodgers and Indy recently tanked to land an almost sure thing in Luck which wasn't considered a reach at all.


Tell you what Rick, why don't you go ahead and reel off all the teams that 'reached' for QB's and have rings and multi consecutive playoff runs to show for it? Most recent/semi recent HoF QB's I can think of weren't reaches either -Marino, Elway, Manning..


Honestly the only time you should reach in the draft is when you can afford to. And the list of teams that can afford to do it is pretty short, and it's not a list you'll find the Bears on to begin with.

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If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

By this logic you could pick the best player available -not reach for that QB- and still most likely suck enough every year to land in the high points of the draft to continue doing so till the next Manning or Luck swings around.


Or, your team actually improves every year while you don't reach, and pick the best player available and you get to a point where a journeymen QB or a game manager QB can be used on said team to get you into the playoffs for a possible run.

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If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

I didn't say that the Cutler trade was necessarily wrong. He had the potential to improve and make it worth it and his age was a factor. He could have become a great to elite quarterback. He wasn't at that point and had major issues and that is why Denver did the unthinkable and drop him pretty quickly.

He was an average quarterback in Denver at the time of the trade. He snuck into the Pro Bowl because everyone else dropped out. He was 16th in qb rating. He was 14th in completion percentage. He was 3rd in yards but total yards often lies(see Hoyer). He was 7th in touchdowns but had the 2nd most interceptions in the league. So, unless you only care about yards(and you shouldn't) and touchdowns without context, he was average. His team also wasn't good, the coach got fired, and the team decided that Kyle Orton was a better option than him.

He had the potential to be much better. That is why you make the trade. I doubted he would suddenly start fixing his issues because he had a lot of mechanical issues and he already shown the same attitude that Bears fans and the numerous fired coaches he played for learned to love.

As I said, you picked a terrible place to fight me here. It wasn't your worst one this year but it probably is the second. If there is one thing that I can say with certainty it is that I was concerned about Cutler from the very beginning.

No, dumb is making a $250 bet you have no chance of winning because you claim you can afford it.

Drafting the best available quarterback with the third pick in the draft(within reason) for the most important position on the team is not dumb.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Its incredibly dumb if you have 4 or 5 players ranked higher than that QB.

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With a rookie qb you move on after three years and try it again.
Tom Brady was one of the largest anomalies in sports history. Good luck waiting until the 6th round trying to get a hall of fame quarterback. The Packers drafted a quarterback, in the first round, with a hall of fame quarterback playing for them. Indianapolis drafted a quarterback with a first round pick. They got incredibly lucky that the most can't miss prospect since Peyton fell on their lap. Are you arguing for or against me? My god. I'm not sure you could have picked three worse teams to back you up.
No pick, even a quarterback, is a guarantee of a lock. I noticed you never actually answered my question. I will however answer yours. Baltimore and the Giants "reached" for a quarterback in the first round.

Now go ahead and list off all of the model franchises you wish the Bears would be like. Then tell me who is calling plays for them and the round in which that quarterback was drafted. lol indeed.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Rankings take into account position. QB is by far the most valuable. It is worth it to give up "4 or 5 spots" to get a player that can lock down that position on your team for the next 10 to 15 years.

I guess we can wait for the next Tom Brady though!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You're wrong.

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I never said that drafting a QB was dumb, I just pointed out that if you're looking at predictors of success, I'd rather take the 25 year old who demonstrated measurable success against the best defensive players in the world, as opposed to some dude who tore up Wofford.

But I'll refocus, this isn't a Cutler thread but using Cutler. His 2008 season was probably his best as a pro, and it was accomplished at a young age. A big reason being that he was only sacked 11 times the whole year. The Broncos had 4 lineman they drafted and developed protecting Cutler.

Again, I'd like to see the Bears take an offensive lineman in the draft. If there isn't one valuable enough at #3, acquire a pick or two and slide down in the first round. Lots of holes on this team.

Also, not for nothing B Rick, but you seem oddly consumed by my bet with JORR. The bet was entertainment to me, like any bet I make be it at a casino or in a bar, I got my money's worth out of the deal. If you can't afford a bet like that under those conditions, my advice to you is work harder and save your money. You'll get there one day to, I believe in you.

It doesn't work this way.

If the Bears have 5 guys on their draft board rated as "top 5 talent", and the highest QB they have on the board is rated as a talent that falls between 15 and 25, they aren't giving up "5 spots", they are giving up 10-20.

Read the post I quoted please.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Yeah, I read it, I don't think you comprehend.

The #5 guy on the Bears draft board isn't necessarily worth the #5 pick in the draft. You understand this right? It doesn't work this way.

I think Frank's point is that if the Bears view 4-5 guys as premium talents, and then there is a noticeable talent gap between those 5 guys and the next tranche of 10 guys, you aren't maximizing your return on the pick if you skip one of the premium guys for one of the lesser talented players.

With the Bears luck they will take a QB at 3 that will be a huge bust while the other top 10 picks will be Hall of Famers

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I think I'll read his post and take it as he didn't actually mean something different than he said.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!