5th at his position?

Statistically he's between the 4th and 6th best player in the league. Eye test matches up with that too. You're insane.

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1. LeBron

2. Durant

3. Greek Freak

4. Kawhi

Which one is he better than and which eye test are you using. I've seen him dominated by each one of these guys and their stats back it up.

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80 pages

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Have to compensate for the fact that burgeoning Wolves buckets have stalled at a rather pedestrian 4

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Right now he's better than Giannis. You use the term dominated too liberally also.

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I don't know which stats you are citing either. Giannis Trump's him in every state except scoring and he was only about a point or 2 off there. He is decidedly better than Butler and proved it during the 3 games he matched up with him. It can't be an aberration if he did it all 3 times

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We've been over this but you need to look at more than the traditional stats. They are basically identical in WS/48. Butler has him in WS overall and offensive rating. Giannis is slightly ahead in PER and VORP. He's certainly not "decidedly" better.

Also, and I tried explaining this during last years playoffs to you, a three game sample size is practically useless.

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I value that much more than dropping 40 on New Jersey or piling up numbers against garbage teams.

If I see a stat which says he went 1 for 9 with Leonard guarding him (which was the case last game) that means more than a compilation of stats piled up against crappy teams during meaningless games. You have to factor in variables such as time and score and other things too. The game could have been out of reach. It's hard to make the argument he is better when each of these guys killed him when they matched up with him.

I value that much more than him getting numbers against Kyle Korver

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I value that much more than dropping 40 on New Jersey or piling up numbers against garbage teams.

If I see a stat which says he went 1 for 9 with Leonard guarding him (which was the case last game) that means more than a compilation of stats piled up against crappy teams during meaningless games. You have to factor in variables such as time and score and other things too. The game could have been out of reach. It's hard to make the argument he is better when each of these guys killed him when they matched up with him.

I value that much more than him getting numbers against Kyle Korver

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You don't seem to know what killed and dominated mean within this context. Please point out the game in which LeBron killed/dominated Butler this year.

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Not this year but that one really isn't a conversation. The only guy debatable is Giannis and Chauncey Billups already has him 3rd in the conf. Behind James and Irving.

You will not find many people that think he is better than any of the 4 I just named.

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Well of course he's not as good as LeBron and Kawhi. They are the two best players in the league. He's comparable to Giannis. But you said he's the fifth best SF in the game. I'll give you LeBron and Kawhi. Who are the other two better than him? Giannis is a PG.

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Kawhi better than Russ?

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Yes. Better than Harden, Durant, and Steph too.

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Still waiting on my av/sig btw.

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Nick Friedell ESPN Staff Writer

Good stat from Jacob Nitzberg of ESPN Stats and Info:

"Tonight was Jimmy's 2nd game this season with 40+ points, 10+ rebounds & 5+ assists (also 1/2 vs CHA). Russell Westbrook is the only other player with multiple such games this season (he has 5)."

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Eye test tells me his defenders have short arms, that's why he's able to throw the ball over them for assists. Unimpressive.

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This is the same thing we went through with Noah during his defensive player of the year season. When the team is going nowhere why not see what you get in return for your best player who isn't necessarily a building block for the future. I say not necessarily because while he's not over the hill he's not just out of school either, so since it'll take some time to rebuild this thing because GarPax sucks why not just explore the market to set you up for future success?

I rate Westbrook higher than Butler, so it almost makes no sense to trade Westbrook unless you get like three young burgeoning stars in return. Not going to happen. I don't think Butler is worth the same price, so you may be able to get assets in return. Westbrook is in the same place Kobe was from like 2004-2008 - team going nowhere so he's going to get his crazy numbers every night.

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2013 CSFMB ROY

That's what happens when you're "the guy" on an otherwise dog-ass team. Still and all, his usage rate isn't egregious at 27.9%, 19th among qualified G/F's just ahead of Kevin Durant. Westbrook's USG%, for contrast, is 42.4%.

As much as I like Noah, that's a flawed analogy. Butler is younger and better than Noah was at the time, with zero injury history as well. Butler isn't 30. There's no reason to trade Butler at all unless you're getting just an unbelievable return.

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Butler has a shit load of miles and several lower body injuries. His decline won't be graceful because he's more of an effort guy.

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It's funny. His decline physically will mirror Wade's. I expect his body to start breaking down in the next two years. He takes a beating and for him to be effective he has to take a beating. He draws a lot of fouls and his game is based primarily on an unbelievable work ethic. He isn't particularly skilled and as such will have to be a driver to score.

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Please name the several lower body injuries and the amount of games it's caused him to miss.

MANY of you want to return to the Ron Mercer years. It's sad and pathetic.

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He hasn't played more than 67 games in 5 years.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/jimmy-butl ... r-injuries

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None of those look serious or long term. Especially illness

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They've caused him to miss 20% of all but 1 season of his career.

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Yup..If that leads to the slew of picks we had between 2001-2005ish. Rather have that than a middling team led by league's most surprising star (i.e. who cares).

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I'd rather have a shitty team with a top 5-10 player than a shitty team with nobody to build around. I remember those years. They were unwatchable. And they didn't lead to anything worthwhile and it almost certainly won't this time around either.

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