I will go back and look at it again but I didn't go as deep in the weeds with it as you but if you up the minutes limit obviously you get different list of names. Fact remains that any rating that lists Gobert at the top in both offense and defense is a bad rating. I haven't really had the time but While you are at it explain to me how Klay Thompson and Paul George are nowhere to be found on any of these top lists? Per doesn't have either in the top 50 players.

You are making a ton of excuses as to why the list is flawed also. I really haven't moved the goalpost you have. I simply provided example. I misstated and exaggerated the one thing. I wasn't really paying attention as I typed.

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Here is the thing with "Isoball". Isoball isn't necessarily a bad thing all the time. It also isn't a bad thing when you have a dynamic offensive player. Butler isn't that. The eyetest strongly suggests that. Your great offensive players tend to be great iso guys too. Butler isn't a great offensive player. He is a average to good offensive player that has the ball in his hands quite a bit.

James and Irving won a championship playing iso ball but they are both great offensive players. Kobe Bryant won playing iso ball and so did Jordan. It can work when you have great offensive players.

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Why are his statistics better than Cousins'?

He scores on a higher percentage of his shots. He finds teammates for successful baskets more often than Cousins. He steals the ball more. He turns the ball over less. He gets to the line more and converts more free throws.

Cousins gets more rebounds. That's about it. If Butler was 4" taller and played under the basket defensively...he'd be winning that category as well.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Cousins is simply a more skilled player. Butler draws fouls. That is probably his best trait. I will crunch the numbers you'd be hard pressed to find many that think that Butler is the better player. As far as assists totals there probably isn't much of a discrepancy for their career and Butler is a guard. Cousins has a better skill set than Butler and he is 4 inches taller.

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He is more skilled and yet nothing backs that up?

That seems difficult to accomplish.

Could I be a more skilled NBA player than some current NBA players even if I wouldn't be as successful?

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Watching both play strongly supports it. Which person is the better post player? Cousins is also a better passer than Butler.

As far as shooters their career 3 point% is about the same. I'm pretty certain and I haven't even looked at the numbers. Rebounding is a no brainer. As far as one on one player Cousins is a nightmare on the box. Butler isn't a good one on one player either. Do you want to look at career scoring avgs? Cousins murders him there too. I don't even have to look at numbers.

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Well, Thompson has fallen off from what he was last year. His 3P% is down almost 40 points, but his USG% is still up over 25%. So, his scoring ability has fallen off a bit but he's being used about as much as he was last year, rate-wise, so his inefficiency is going to drop. He's also now playing third fiddle with Kevin Durant on the team. Of note is that his corner-3 game has fallen off precipitously from 41% last year to 33% this year.

George is fairing pretty well this year, but he's not barnstorming by any stretch. One curious thing I saw is that he is playing the 3 almost exclusively this year, as opposed to last year where almost 40% of his minutes were at the 4. He's taking and making more mid-range shots and shooting fewer 3's (and as a result making more of them). This has come at the cost of high-percentage shots close to the basket, as well as fewer trips to the charity stripe, and facing generally more athletic opponents, now needing to rely on teammates to help get him open as opposed to last year when he could blow by bigger, slower 4's. He's not doing many of the things that made him a top-10 forward in the league last year.

They both should be higher in the rankings in theory though. My issue is that an overreiance on it can become problematic. That is why I keep harping on Curry/Kyrie. Curry offensively stacks up with some of the greats all time if you simply go off advanced stats. The way he performed against OKC and particularly Cleveland strongly dispels that though. He didn't do anything in the previous years finals either.

It is apparent that there are holes in his game offensively and Cleveland exploited it. He couldn't get around Thompson or Love on those switches and he shot a number of airballs. No greatest all time shooter should do that. It wasn't just that he missed. He missed badly. Can't guard his lunch and decision making is atrocious.



It is apparent that he is product of that offense and a beneficiary of having playmaking bigs Bogut/Green.




When I look at Butler I see much the same thing. Curry is a much better offensive player than Butler though. He doesn't do anything special offensively. Not quick off the bounce. Just an average shooter. Doesn't pass particularly well. Doesn't get great separation from his defender. Can't blow by guys. Does go strong to the bucket however. That is his best asset.

You have to do more than that to be an elite player.

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Cousins numbers are better. Career Avg. Avg per game. 3 point% this season is 2 points higher. Their assist totals for the past 3 seasons are eerily similar and even this season Butler is only .6 higher and he plays a great deal of point guard.

I am comfortable saying he has a greater skill set than Butler. The assist totals are woeful for a guy that runs as much point as Butler runs.

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If you were the coach, would you center your offense around a 6-7 swingman posting up?

Butler dribbles better. You haven't seen me bring that up. Of course a wing dribbles better than a 6-11 center.

How can Cousins be the better passer if he has fewer assists and more turnovers?

You're bringing up career averages? Do you realize how dumb that sounds when we're talking about best players in the NBA currently?

Let me rephrase that question.

Do you realize how dumb you sound?

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Because I watch him play. He makes better passes. When was the last time you've seen Butler drop a dime? Their career numbers are exactly the same. Butler really doesn't have much of a handle. Slightly better handle. Cousins shoots a higher percentage on 3's than Butler. their Efg% is about the same. Butler should have more assists given the fact that he initiates a tremendous amount of their offense. This is also the first season that Butler can be considered an elite scorer also. Cousins has been that for the past 4 seasons at least.


Cousins has holes no doubt. Tremendously undisciplined as a player. I have doubts about him being that guy either but I would still rank him over Butler. Butler is in the Paul George/ Derozan range as a player. I actually might rank those guys above him because they have been better career wise than he offensively. Butler will still have to show that he can keep this up over an entire season. The others have done that in their career.

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Yea LTG you need to get out of here with career averages in this discussion. Since emerging as a starter Butler has averaged around 4.5 assists which is where you expect an all star SF to be with his skill set. In fact that's probably above average.

Hey LTG are Kobe and Duncan elite scorers in your book? If so why did Duncan only average 19 and Kobe only 25? Pretty unimpressive if you ask me.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

No Mas

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

You are talking about a guy that is have one very good season. You have to look at consistency. For what it is worth we haven't even reached the half way point and his avg has probably been bumped up a couple of points the past couple of weeks. You do realize there is an equilibrium to this and once his avg dips don't go back to the tried and true of bashing Hoi berg for the way Butler is being used. I know that is coming.

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25 is elite and Butler has yet to come close to avg that over an entire season. Duncan was an elite scorer.

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I agree with your list. I'm not sure if that helps you or hurts you though.

Thanks so does Kaplan. He just said there are 10 he'd easily take and Butler is top 15. Don't know if that helps either.

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We're talking about this year though, not trying to hand out lifetime achievement awards just yet. Oh, and Hoiberg bashing is here to stay, and deservedly so. Marc Trestman reincarnate.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

This year has only been 37 games though. Not even a half of season. He has played well but elite? This is definitely one to be revisited at the end of the year. If he lasts til then

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What is this stat Similarity Scores? Does it mean anything??????

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

EXIT VELOCITY !!!!!!

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http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/couside01.html

Boogies win comparisons are shall we say horseshit

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Let's add some fuel.

http://www.espn.com/fantasy/basketball/ ... y-rankings

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

Jimmy to the Celtics has resurfaced. Nick Friedell said it on 1000 yesterday afternoon, KC wrote it last night, and everybody else is running with it.

From KC:

"There are rival executives who believe the Bulls and Celtics will rekindle trade talks centered on Jimmy Butler before the Feb. 23 deadline. The teams held serious talks in June, and the Celtics own the same assets — Jae Crowder, Marcus Smart, the Nets' first-round picks in 2017 and 2018 — the teams discussed then."

If they could pull off getting both Brooklyn #1 picks in 2017 and 2018, I'd be a very happy guy. Don't really care about players coming back, but Marcus Smart or Jaylen Brown would be nice. If they do this trade, the Bulls will probably have 2 top ten picks in a very deep 2017 draft.

Very Deep...let's hear your 2 picks in the top ten say 3 and 8

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

The draft is so deep, I'd be happy with a lot of players in the lottery. I forgot the Bulls have Sacramento's 1st round pick this summer if it is outside of the top 10. Unless the Bulls know they're signing Chris Paul and Chris Bosh this summer, they need to blow this thing up right damn now.

They'd need a PG. Markelle Fultz and Dennis Smith are both fun to watch. How about Malik Monk too? All that dude does is score. Johnathan Isaac too.

I may be wrong but I don't think 1st round picks can be dealt for consecutive years. If so then you make this trade in a heartbeat. This is a lot to give up for Butler but if Ainge is willing to do it cool. Let's roll

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There's a swap protection on the 2017 pick, but that option lies with the Celtics (which I believe would transfer to the Bulls), I think that protection is what allowed Brooklyn to trade 2017 and 2018 first round picks.