As a Cub fan, who would you rather have, Brian Roberts or Joe Nathan? IMO I would rather have Nathan. He would give us that dominate closer, allow Marmol and Howry to be your 7th and 8th inning guys, and then Wood could be the 6th inning guy. As for Roberts, we do have DeRosa to play 2nd. If they want to upgrade the leadoff spot, they could sign Kenny Lofton to play center if Pie or Fuld don't pan out. Right now I think closer is the biggest weakness on this team.

stupid. the cubs bullpen was one of thier strongest qualities last season. getting on base and manufacturing runs was not. Roberts would help that.

an upgrade in the leadoff spot would be to NOT hit soriano there. he is not and never has been a true leadoff hitter.

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Sadly though, I think they will have Soriano as leadoff again next year. I want Roberts, but if its going to cost the cubs what Seattle had to give for Bedard, you can have him.

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Sporting News ranks the Cubs as having the 2nd best pen in the NL for 08, so take that for what it's worth.

Hopefully, the Cubs will have little need for a 6th inning reliever.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

Dunno, Arizona's pen looked pretty good against us during the season and playoffs.

You have either Marmol or Wood closing when they have never closed before (not saying they are going to fail, just some risk). You are banking on another decent season from Howry. Eyre sucked and Cotts really sucked last year. And, despite his occasional closing troubles, you lost a 30 save closer in Dempster to the rotation. If they are really second, it says a lot about how bad the rest of the NL bullpens are.

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one thing about bullpens, you never know what you have from year to year. there are several top-line relievers who you can count on, but for the most part, you just dont know how they are going to perform from year to year. cubs fans who are basing expectations for marmol on what he did last year are setting him up to fail. he was great, but by almost anyones standards his numbers were gaudy-good, almost-impossible-to-repeat-good. im glad the cubs have him, but im not puffing out my chest on the unhittable carlos marmol and the rest of this pen.

and if ryan dempster and/or jason marquis are in the rotation, you might want to plan on a couple 3rd, 4th and 5th inning relievers anlong with the 6th inning guy. dempster was a crappy starter even when he was healthy and young.

Nathan is one of those guys. His presence would make the entire rotation a little better.

Roberts is good, but he is a complimentary player. Nathan is someone you build around.

Is Nathan actually even available? MLBTraderumors.com has several quotes that the Twins are actually trying to extend his contract.

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He is available for the right offer. Plus, I'm not to sure he would want an extention with the Twins considering he probably won't get that many chances to save games.

Id assume that Nathan would cost more then what the cubs have to offer.

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I disagree - building around a closer is never a good idea. The Diamondbacks were in a similar situation as the Cubs with their pitching staff, and they made the decision to trade Valverde (their proven closer, one of the best in the league) and let Tony Pena (decidedly unproven) have first dibs at the closer spot, which is what the Cubs should be doing with Marmol.

Closer is a totally overrated position. The best reliever should come into the tightest spot, regardless of the inning, but it's (flawed) conventional wisdom in baseball that your best reliever comes out in the 9th, which leads to a lot of missed opportunities.

The currency of baseball is runs. It's imperative that the Cubs add someone to their lineup that facilitates scoring runs. Brian Roberts helps the Cubs a lot more this year than Joe Nathan does, especially considering who the Cubs have in their bullpen already.

Also, Hoffy's right, I didn't even think the Twins were shopping Nathan, and even if they are, you have to give up more for less in return than you would for Roberts.

i agree that nathan is one of the sure-thing relievers in mlb, and would love it if the cubs had a chance at him, but as a gm i would have been more willing to give the most for 1) a quality starter 2) a stopper, 3) a hitter (they already broke the bank filling the need for an OBP guy with fukodome). i am puzzled by the lack of urgency involving the starting rotation. going into this season with zambrano, lilly, hill and a pile of other stuff (demp, leiber, marquis and others) gives me chills. this lineup SHOULD score runs, but i still doubt any lineup that has soriano leading off. over the long haul you had better have good starting pitching, and i fear the way that rotation is looking.

I'm most worried about starting pitching, especially since that's what I hear they're going to trade for Roberts.

i was wrong about valverde, he went to the astros in exchange for chad qualls, chris burke, and juan gutierrez, so two RP and a not terribly good hitter/position player. also, they're giving the closing spot (for now) to brandon lyon.

I am already nervous about the bullpen, Wood will get hurt, Mamol didnt exactly finish up well in the playoffs, Howry is solid, but I dont want him as their closer. The white sox thought their bullpen was ok in 2006 and look how that went.

Given the choice, I would want Nathan, I can live with DeRosa at 2nd. A lights out closer isnt easy to come by and Nathan would be that for awhile for them. In my perfect world, I would like them to get both, because right now the Cubs look like a division winner to me, but thats about it.

At a minimum, you would have to give up 3-4 prospects for Nathan, assume that includes most of the following: Pie, Vitters, Gallagher, Samardzija and Soto. Then, figure you can include some baggage, like a murton, cedano, etc. I dont want to give up that much on a closer position when the real problem with this team is lack of power and clutch hitting. I would rather have packaged the aforementioned to pick up Bedard and Tejada back when he was available, granted the cubs probably could not have taken on Tejada's salary.

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I think I would prefer to have DeRosa play second than lose all those prospects for a guy switching leagues. What is Roberts VORP?
DeRosa bats .293 to Roberts .290, a statistical tie.
DeRosa drove in 72 to Roberts 57.
DeRosa hit 10 HR, a bit less power then you see from Roberts 12, but again, not too much seperation here.
Now, Brian Roberts had 50 stolen bases last year to DeRosa's single stolen base, and this is partially why DeRosa has about 40 less runs scored.
DeRosa will basically play any position when called upon. Sure, he might not like it much but he does it. You have to award points here I think.
So, will you trade the increased defensive flexibility and prospects for more stolen bases?
The Cubs do show quite a bit of speed on their team. Should Pie manage to get on base more constantly and Soriano heal back to 100% you're looking a speed at the top and bottom of the lineup.
I also think the Cubs are going to get their hits too this year. I don't think there will be a lot of need for additional offensive firepower.
No, I like DeRosa on this team and I think he does bring more to the table at this point in his career than Roberts will. At least to a team like the Cubs.

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"Play until it hurts, then play until it hurts to not play."
http://soundcloud.com/darkside124 HOF 2013, MM Champion 2014

So its agreed, Nathan isnt on the block and even if he was, the Cubs would not be able to get him. Sorry, I needed closure

If you ask me whether or not I want Roberts, only if he comes at a cheap price, in other words a few second level prospects not in my list above and a guy like Marshall, Murton and/or Cedano.

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i dont think closers or hitters are the concern on this club. starting pitching is going to haunt this team. they have good bullpen depth, but a star closer is a luxury that the cubs shouldnt trade for at this point. and i agree with darkside, roberts production isnt that much of an upgrade from what they have (granted the stolen bases are nice). i love the flexibility of derosa being able to play every day at various positions, but with fukodome starting in right everyday, derosa probably wont need to be as versatile, they wont need to throw him in the outfield anymore.

regardless, i think all of the bullpen/lineup problems are the least of thier worries. after z, lilly and hill, hold your breath.

Lets hope that after the league seeing him for a year that Lilly doesnt fall back to being a .500 pitcher. Remember, he acted more as a number 1 starter then zambrano last year. Im not counting on that this season.

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who knows what was going on between the orioles and the cubs, but i would have traded quite a bit for bedard, much more than all the effort that sounds like was being made for roberts. that guy can pitch. im sure lots of teams expressed interest in him, including the cubs.

Nathan for Pie, Marhsall and Gallagher and we sign Lofton!

1. Lofton
2. Soriano (i know this is not a popular move as the old baseball theory os to move he guy over, but what about the fastballs Soriano would see)
3. D Lee
4. Ramirez
5. Fuk U, Fuk Me
6. Soto
7. Theriot
8. De Ro (King of the Double play, thus Theriot in front)
9. Pitcher

Sam Fuld to replace late innings for speed on bases and then one more free agent OF Reggis Sanders? rondell White?

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

ROndell White? Lofton? Maybe they can resign Henry Rodriguez and Tuffy Rhodes so they can have the entire outfield they had in 1997.

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Im on my third white russian, so please forgive me when I say not a snowballs chance in hell my friend that the Twins would make that move. I also do not ever want to see reggie sanders or rondell white in cubbie blue. Also, Soriano will never bat 2, you have to either bat him 1 or 6-9, and if you bat him 6-9 then he historically disappears from your lineup.

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i wish lofton would just go away forever and retire once and for all. as the team is currently constructed, i would prefer to see theriot lead off and have fukodome bat 2nd, and shove soriano down to 6th. i know fukodome has power (japan league power), but with his OBP and ability to get on base, i want him in FRONT of lee and ramirez, not after them. why not something like this:

theriot
fukodome
lee
ramirez
soriano
soto
derosa
pie
pitcher

if they can get men on base ahead of lee, ramirez and soriano, you dont have as much pressure to have to steal a base every time on base with theriot, even though he is capable of stealing some.

Seems like I have heard that analysis somewhere else.

While that may be true generally (and I don't necessarily concede that point), in this specific instance and these specific players, I believe Nathan is the better acquisition.

I knew when I wrote "build around" I should have been more specific.

Lofton contributed last year, White and Sanders both at the end of the career no doubt, but the question is whether you can squeeze out the end of career as a 5th OF, or do you play a Sam Fuld type. i expect Fuld to be on the roster absent of batting .090 in the spring.

Soriano, Pie, Fuku, Fuld and __________. Murton? I would invite rondell to camp, he is only 36 and if healthy could out hit Murton.

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"That's what the internet is for. Slandering others anonymously." Banky
“Been that way since one monkey looked at the sun and told the other monkey ‘He said for you to give me your fuckin’ share.’”

i liked angel pagan. im surprised they got rid of him. he had wheels, was a decent fielder, and seemed somewhat productive at the plate. i know, he was injury-prone. when he played and was healthy, he looked pretty good.

murton is a hack in the field, but i still believe in his bat. i wont be pissed if he is the 4th or 5th outfielder. rondell white is worth an invite, you never know, he might still have some productivity left in him.

oh, and dont forget the great ronny cedeno outfield experiment. from what i have read, he is going to get a serious look in the outfield this spring.