right, they lose to those crappy teams. which is due to effort, which is a reflection of the coach

So do your soon to be NBA title contending Wolves (lost to the lowly Kings over the Weekend). You however still beat the drums for Thibs.

Their letdowns against crappy teams is cause for concern. Hoiberg probably is only destined to be .500 coach but they have looked better the past 2 weeks.


I just find the level of disappoointment with the Bulls to be rather phony. Before the start of the season there were very few if any that were happy with the construction of the Roster. Hated the signing from Wade to Rondo to anyone. To here some tell it now the Bulls would be so much better off if they only had another (preferably Thibs) as their coach. Having Thibs as coach sure has been working wonders for the Wolves and their 50 loss season having ass hasn't it.

_________________

Nets 141 Sixers 118 are you still beating your drum for Brown?

_________________
I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

is it possible for you to make an NBA post without mentioning Thibs or the Timberwolves ?

Ouch babe. You forgot All-Star caliber Nikola Mirotic.

edit: Wow you guys post fast. I responded to an old post. Maybe it was already addressed.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

If there was an ounce of consistency or objectivity I could. .500 team playing .500 ball (actually will be 1 or 2 over) doesn't jive with him being the terrible coach that you and others portray him to be. He has made mistakes and he probably isn't championship level but the results don't coincide with the narrative. This roster isn't all that talented and Jimmy Butler has had his two best seasons as a pro playing for Hoiberg.

He doesn't get credit for anything which puts guys like me in a position to defend him all the time. I know why the Thibs talk is persona non grata and it has nothing to do with Hoiberg. His team stinks and he hasn't lived up to the hype. I am going to bang the drums as long as I believe that there isn't objectivity involved.


If anyone can show where this team was predicted to be anywhere but where they are then maybe I will leave it alone.

_________________

long time guy : Thibs as JORR : Trump

Yes, veteran team would be the correct description for a team with one three-time NBA champion, one one-time NBA champion, and several other players with multiple years of playoff experience.





It is a terrible job. I'm sorry you're impressed with the illusion of mediocrity. In all fairness the Bulls should be five to seven games better given the atrociousness of the east. Good coaches mean a team exceeds expectations. And it is a shit show due to all the blowback Hoiberg has generated due to his failure to lead a locker room.



Meaningless when you're under 500 and generally a shit team.



Are you praising or criticizing Hoiberg here? Can't tell.

[/quote]

Once again you have no facts to back up anything here. The east had better records 1-8 in 2011 as compared to this year:
http://www.nba.com/standings/2010/team_ ... d_Cnf.html

Maybe I "conveniently fail to ever mention it" because it never happened. On the other hand can we take you to task for inconveniently mentioning things that never happened? Results in a lot of research I really don't want to do. Please speak factually.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

_________________
I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

As the only objective one here, let me sort this out.

Hoiberg has done a poor job in his only two years as head coach. It's evident that the players dont respect him and that he doesn't have a coherent gameplan game to game. There is nothing to suggest he has improved as a coach in his two years. He should be fired immediately but probably won't be because nobody who works under Reinsdorf is ever held accountable for anything.

Thibs has a track record of success that only a few coaches in the league currently can match. That said, this season has been an unmitigated disaster. The Timberwolves are every bit as disappointing as the Bulls this season, and might be even more disappointing. Given his track record, I'm obviously inclined to give Thibs more of a benefit of the doubt than Hoiberg, but he needs to make the playoffs next season or else we have to seriously start considering ltg is correct about him being mediocre and overrated. But I'm not ready to go there yet after his only bad season as a head coach.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Does anyone else suspect long time guy has some ~faaaaabulous~ reasons for hating Thibodeau the way he does?

_________________

There are several reasons why you cannot compare the two.

First of all, the Wolves have a younger roster than the Bulls, and their core players are significantly younger than the Bulls' core players on average. Second of all, this is Hoiberg's second year with the team - Thibs is in his first year. Third of all, just to speak factually, the west is markedly better than the east this year, making Thibs' job much tougher. The east, speaking factually, is significantly worse than the west, making Hoiberg's job much easier.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Of course you can compare the two. They are both NBA teams.

None of what you posted excuses the job Thibs has done this year. A young, very talented team that stagnates is worse than a veteran laden team that stagnates. Let's remember that a lot of people had Minnesota as a much better team than the Bulls before the season started. Now that it's clear that the Wolves aren't any better the Bulls, it's ok to trot out excuses like you just did? Nah.

If Hoiberg has had a disastrous season than Thibs has as well. Any argument otherwise is just equivocating.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

What do you mean by the Wolves "stagnating"? They are going to finish with a better record than they did last year, and that's after losing Levine for the season. I'm not excusing Thibs but am saying there are different degrees of doing a bad job. Thibs' job this year is bad but of a lesser degree than Hoiberg's primarily because it's his first year and typically you're granted a bit of leeway in your first year with a young team. Not so if he was taking over the Spurs, for example. Hoiberg might finish with a worse record than last year despite a free agent spending spree that netted your beloved Raon Rondo and Dwayne Wade, not to mention him being in his second year on the job, where improvement should be expected.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Yep

_________________

The Bulls lost wade traded everyone's favorite Taj for nothing and has an all star player that has rebelled since day one.

No one was talking this young stuff during the summer and Lavine isn't that much of a difference maker. They had a cappy record with him.

_________________

huh?

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Both the Bulls and Wolves will finish within a handful of games of what they were last year. That's stagnation.

I don't agree at all with your first season theory. Whether it's your first season or 10th, you should be evaluated based on what your team did that year comparable to expectations. Also, you and I didn't give Hoiberg any such benefit of the doubt last season, so it's disingenous to now give such a benefit to Thibs simply to try to win an argument.

Go back to before the season started and remember your expectations for both teams. I believe you will see that the Bulls are finishing right around where you thought they would, and the Wolves are worse than you thought they would be. Given that, I don't see how you can say the Bulls are more disappointing than the Wolves.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The Wolves two best players have been injury free the entire season. Last season you couldn't get enough of telling the message board world how Thibs could mount any obstacle presented. Now he cant coach around the loss of his 3rd possibly 4th best player? They weren't playing well with Lavine and there record is 2 or 3 games better than Sacramento's.

_________________

Anymore than this board has for loving him.

_________________

Hoiberg inherited a playoff team that expected to compete against the Cavs just one year prior. He ran that team into the ground and broke a five year string of playoff appearances. His expectations were different than the ones set for This after he inherited a team that, for all its talent, didn't crack thirty wins last year. To judge the two similarly is to indulge in a false equivalency.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

The Bulls werent expected to compete with the Cavs last year or the year before.

It's not a false equivalency at all. You expected the Wolves to be better than the Bulls this year!

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It really is quite interesting how you casually toss Lavine'injury in but fail to account for the 200 games lost to Hoi berg last season.

The Wolves will be 1 or 2 games better than last season. Something tells me they expected more from a coach who they are paying 10 mil a year for.

Since we are into excuse making it should be noted that Sam Mitchell took over last season's team in training camp and essentially had a collection of unproven players yet managed to win 29 games.

_________________

I want to say there was an expectation with rose back and Miami losing James that the east was wide open. When love got injured the expectation that the bulls would rise increased significantly. Losing that year to the Cavs was thibs biggest disappointment in Chicago. So yeah they were expected to compete, failed, came back with the same roster and supposedly an innovative coach then promptly sucked and missed the playoffs. Much different than inheriting a directionless team with no playoff experience in a cut throat conference.

My expectations for the wolves were admittedly hyperbolic but yeah I thought thibs could do better. I still believe he will. If over his tenure thibs doesn't turn the wolves around then I'll admit he's not as good as I thought he was. That being said, regardless, him and Freddie Shinebox do not belong in the same breath with one another.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

FavreFan you're no longer in the Army anymore. No need to attack Muslims.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I disagree with the first part. Nobody had them beating the Cavs that year. Nobody. I guess we can debate the meaning of compete, but I doubt either of us cares enough to do that. Agree to disagree.

The West isn't a a cut throat conference. Half the conference isn't good and they'll send a below .500 team to the playoffs. It's not the same conference it's been for much of the past 15 years.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The part about competing is really a minor point when compared to the larger point about the different teams hoiberg and thibs inherited, and how past performance and roster determine expectations. Hoiberg inarguably took the Bulls backwards while Thibs has marginally pushed the wolves forward, though not as much as I would have expected. That is why I said initially that the two teams cannot be so easily compared. They had/have different expectation.

The west when compared to the east is cut throat. You mention one team in the west being under 500 and entering the playoffs, but that's misleading so it's curious as to why you'd state that. Like I said before up to four east playoff teams may enter the postseason under 500 while the top team in the east wouldn't crack the top four in the west. That's cut throat

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

It's not misleading. Half the conference is below .500. This isn't the same conference that was having 10 48+ win teams from a few years ago. That's cutthroat. The West outside of the top three teams isn't really impressive.

And you're assessment of the two teams expectations continues to be wrong I believe. They both were expected to be a 5-8 seed by most analysts in their respective conferences. Most would probably say the Wolves have more talent on their roster. I believe you would say that.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'm not defending Hoiberg. I've been consistent in my dislike for him. But us pro-Thibs guys inarguably did not have a good year for our cause.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You didn't. I nailed it. Same with Hoiberg too.

_________________
Be well

GO BEARS!!!