I guess ESPN was discussing this tonight before Sunday night baseball. Has some of my cardinal friends irritated that they would even raise this question. In their minds he is a no brainer.

But is he? Defensively he is one of the greats. But offensively he is not hall of fame worthy. Does his defense carry him in?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

No

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'm not sure, which means no. I think Cards fans are pumping him up to get over their legitimate no-doubt Hall of Famer, Pujols, spurning them.

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I'd say yes.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

So in your opinion his defense is enough to get him in?

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Is Benito Santiago?

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Yeah I guess between that and the fact I think he's hit just well enough to justify it.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Two top 5 finishes for MVP in 13 seasons so far? C'mon. Don't turn the baseball HoF into the basketball HoF.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Hey I didn't say I was right

_________________
Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

I would have to look at the numbers more, but I think Yadi was better

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Fuck those Molina brats.

I would say Yes.

I looked at them and would agree... But not by a lot.

Yadi's career WAR is 33 vs Santiago's 27. Santiago was a five-time all star vs Yadi's 7 thus far. 3 gold gloves vs. 8. Santiago has twice as many home runs... But also didn't have the team success of Molina. Molina is definitely better, but I don't think it's a terrible comparison, especially considering the quality of catchers in Santiago's era that probably robbed him of a lot of awards.

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He is a lock for the hgh wing.

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That's my purse! I don't know you!

is that true? didnt know that

Look at his body 5 years ago as compared to now .

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

Yes. He's been on a whole other level in his career defensively.

He has been great defensively. But is there an example of a catcher making it into the Hall on that alone? I am just not sure that does it.

Ivan Rod and Gary Carter were great both defensively and offensively.

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I have a feeling that if you take what he's done defensively, the fact he's never really been a liability at the plate, and his World Series rings and All Star appearances and he's in. Not slam dunk first ballot in by any stretch, but he eventually gets in.

I realize there are way more important things to look at for a career, but Im genuinely curious: is there any Hall of Famer currently that has only finished in the top 20 of MVP voting twice in their career and never won the award?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Ozzie Smith is the closest I've found...haven't looked that much but wanted to see his history since it seemed like a case of someone getting in solely on their defensive merit and never winning an MVP.

That's a good call

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

There's a handful who have never won one, but not MANY.

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Not winning one is ok. I was just surprised that Molina has only finished in the top 20 twice.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

COOPERSTOWNS JUST FINE

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Yes. Easily.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

People don't vote for defense. Hell, they'd rather throw votes a pitchers way before rewarding someone for their defensive ability.

Also thinks it counts for something that he plays almost every game behind the plate.

That article is only up to 2012. Gotta figure the Cubs will have a couple soon too with the number of guys they'll have competing with each other for the award for years to come.

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I vote no, but I'll admit that a stud defensive catcher and game-caller is unlike any other position in baseball. They're worth their weight in gold.

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