long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Yeah I also wish I could have undone the Phil Jackson era in Chicago.
Not about that. Krause had more to do with it than he did.
long time guy wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
How can I forget how influential Krause's triangle offense was in both Chicago and LA. 11 rings is no joke. He was also instrumental in forging peace between Kobe and Shaq, and between Rodman and Rodman's brain.
Phil Jackson walked into a team that was ready to win in both situations.
The Rodman stuff is overblown. Rodman was an ass with the Bulls but they won which obscures everything.
So why did Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, and Shaq have a combined zero rings before Jackson walked into their lives. And why do they each give credit to Jackson in copious interviews and self-authored books? I guess you know better than them.
I'm fairly confident than I know more than you. I watched that team from the very beginning. Phil Jackson is one of the biggest frauds going and I'm glad to see that you're a big fan. Had the benefit of coaching 3 of arguably the top 10 12 guys in history and somehow he is a genius.
The reason that Jordan had no rings is because he didn't have anyone around him during those years. Doug did a helluva job coaching that team.
That's pretty pompous to start. I'm pretty sure I'm older than you and have followed the Bulls from Norm to Artis to Reggie to MJ on. Phil was critical to the Bull's and also the Lakers success. He may be a horrible GM but that has nothing to do with his coaching in that era.
You have to define what critical happens to be. Doug Collins coached the Bulls when they were a crap team. They had Jordan and nothing else. He led them to an upset of a Cleveland team that was much better.
Phil Jackson didn't lead Jordan to trust his teammates Krause provided him with better teammates. When you look at the 4 people most instrumental to the Bulls success Jordan Pippen Krause and Jackson Jackson had the least impact.
It was not difficult to coach Michael Jordan and this notion that the Bulls won because Jackson changed Jordans thinking is garbage.
Jordan had terrible teammates early in his career and he had to dominate the ball in order for the Bulls to win. The guys he won with in 91 were nothing like the guys he won with in 87 or 88. Look at the rosters and you'll see what I'm talking about. The Bulls took off once Pippen and Grant became reliable players. Pippen becoming an all star.
The above is copied from a thread about Carmelo Anthony of all people. Creating a new thread here to continue the discussion.
It seems LTG believes the following. As is normal in LTG's NBA world, none of his conclusions are supported by his premises:
- Krause deserves more credit than PJ for the six rings
- That Kobe, Shaq, and Jordan credit Jackson for his indispensable role in both their careers and specific championship success is irrelevant because LTG knows more
- Doug Collins was a good coach who was nonetheless irrelevant because Krause mattered more, and PJ has blood on his hands for taking over for Collins after the latter was fired by...Krause
- There is no correlation with PJ walking into Chicago and LA and the NBA championships of those cities increasing by a combined 11 by the time PJ left
To me this is a textbook definition of a troll job. Jackson's role in his 11 championships as a coach is well-documented by both observers and the players themselves. Reports from players especially are what we call "primary sources," LTG, and your dismissal of those sources is where I had to check out.
Join us next week when LTG argues how Jesus Christ gets too much credit for rise and doctrines of Christianity some 2000 years ago, and how Christianity could have thrived without the help of Christ.
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