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Beardown

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Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 11:18 pm

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It's not that I don't want him. He's good. I just don't think I want him at the price he wants. He'll tie up to much money and we won't get the value. He's the guy you get when you're one step a way from a title. If everything goes well the Bulls won't be a title contender for 3 years. By then Wallace will be old. How can you have a front court of Tyson and Wallace. Doesn't somebody have to score from those spots. At least be a threat.

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good dolphin

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Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:16 am

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
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Nastradamus wrote:

I really believe the Bulls might have a younger and potentially more talented version on their team in Chandler.

As insane of a statement as that is I think I agree with you. Two straightjackets please.

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A7X

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Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:38 am

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good dolphin wrote:

Nastradamus wrote:

I really believe the Bulls might have a younger and potentially more talented version on their team in Chandler.

As insane of a statement as that is I think I agree with you. Two straightjackets please.

Make that three.

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Tall Midget

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Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 2:26 pm

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Quote:

I really believe the Bulls might have a younger and potentially more talented version on their team in Chandler.

Umm, no.

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Woodridge Ryan

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Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:01 pm

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Ben Wallace will officially be a Bull on July 12. I'm all for it. We've all bitched and moaned about the Bulls not getting "the" guy in free agency and now they have. I don't want to here comparisons to Tyson Chandler because there's no way in hell Tyson is as good of a player as Ben Wallace. He's not even a poor man's version of him. The team has automatically become better for making this move and I think if they had had Ben on the team against Miami the Bulls win that series. Suddenly Detroit would be beatable as well. This to me changes the makeup of the Eastern Conference dramatically. Next year Miami 1 seed, Bulls 2.

Last edited by Woodridge Ryan on Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Beardown

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Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:07 pm

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I'll take it. ESPN reported that the Bulls are talking to New Orleans to trade Tyson for P.J Brown. Hopefully Brown's contract is expiring soon. The Bulls are gonna have to sighn there young talent to big contracts. You can resighn you're own without cap restrictions. Gordon, Kirk, Deng. So if they improve and these two draft picks turn out OK then we won't need another big free agent.

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EG Greg

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Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:35 pm

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PJ Brown would be under contract this year and then come off the books. I think that would be a great trade considering the Wallace signing to free up money next summer for the 3 young guys.

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Weezy F. Baby

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Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:37 pm

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:59 pm
Posts: 248

I'm just sing in my firework lighting to make sure to post that Wallace is officially a Bull. Now flash back to after the 6th game of the series and I wrote that the Bulls should get Wallace and Nas said, "No way he's staying in Detroit" look who was right. I have also heard about a trade with Tyson for someone who can score on the inside. The Bulls have the best defense in the NBA and we will make it to the finals next year. Yes!

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Tall Midget

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Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 10:57 pm

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Quote:

The Bulls have the best defense in the NBA and we will make it to the finals next year. Yes!

No.

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EG Greg

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Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:08 pm

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Tall Midget wrote:

Quote:

The Bulls have the best defense in the NBA and we will make it to the finals next year. Yes!

No.

Who is going to stop LeBron?

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Spinnin' Bucket

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Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:29 pm

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Quote:

Who is going to stop LeBron?

OG's number 1 fan, apparently.

They overpaid a bit, but I like the signing. The few extra million they paid him comes out of Jerry's pocket anyway. Once they extend Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng, the Bulls will be well beyond the cap. Signing Wallace for $15 mil versus $12 mil doesn't have much of an effect on the 3-5 year plan. Plus his contract will expire just before Tyrus Thomas is due and the year before next year's Knicks pick (assuming it's high and assuming he's good) gets paid.

The possible deal with New Orleans would be a straight salary dump, and I'd be surprised if Pax sunk that low. His justification for Chandler's contract in the first place was that he was a valuable asset, and they didn't want to let him walk. The market value was high (see Samuel Dalembert & Erick Dampier) and so the Bulls took on a shitty contract. If they move Tyson, I'd hope it's part of a sign & trade. I realize the Bulls will take on some more salary in 2007-08 with the extensions of Gordon, Deng, and possibly Nocioni. But they're in a big market, they consistently sell out, and I don't think a top-5 payroll is too much to ask for in this town. If you move Chandler as part of a swap to get Al Harrington, then I'm all for it. If you're moving Tyson in order to resign Gordon & Deng next offseason, then I'm a little disappointed with the elasticity of the budget.

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Beardown

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Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:46 pm

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You made some great points Bucket. But I don't think Pax has to unload Tyson just to sign Kirk, Deng, and Gordon. You can resign your own above the cap. That's the league giving teams that draft well an advantage. (By the way shouldn't Kirk be up for a new deal this offseason. Lebron and Wade are. They came from the same draft. I haven't heard anything about a Kirk deal) It is true that once they resign these young Bulls they won't be able to do much more free agent signing. Here's hoping all of these guys improve to championship level players. If so Wallace will be that perfect complimentary player. If not, he's a waste. I got the Bulls at 51 wins next year.

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Spinnin' Bucket

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Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 11:58 pm

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Kirk is up for a new deal later this offseason, Ben & Luol get their payday next summer. A decision on Nocioni needs to be made then, too.

Beardown, I understand the luxury tax and that they could sign everbody and keep Tyson, but not all ownerships would support a payroll that far beyond the cap. That's why I argued the Bulls should sustain a top-5 payroll, but there's no guarantee it will happen. If Tyson goes to Atlanta in a sign & trade for Harrington, then we'll know Pax has free reign to do anything he can to win a title. If Tyson goes to New Orleans for a run-down PJ Brown and a young wing player with a bunch of red flags, then we'll know that Reinsdorf gave Paxson a dollar-range not to go beyond.

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Beardown

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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:17 am

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I would do that P.J trade in a second because I don't think he's needed anymore with Wallace. Then P.J comes off the books. If they do resign Kirk, Ben, and Deng they will be a top payroll team and maybe the reality is they need to unload Tyson for thoser reasons. I don't begrudge Reinsdorf wanting some return on his team. I think he's shown Pax and Bulls fans he's not cheap. He OK'd the draft day trade to get Deng a couple years ago. That was extra money. This draft he Ok'd the trade with Portland to get the Russian. He ate the Pippen deal. He had to eat the Eddie Robinson deal. He also ate the Tim Thomas money. He paid Jay Williams 3 million when he didn't have too. (Man, the NBA owners piss away more bad money contracts then any other league) Anybody that calls Reinsdorf cheap is just wrong as proven by the above. He has to be somewhat financially responsible. Plus Tyson will never live up to his money.

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Spinnin' Bucket

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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 1:21 am

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I'm not saying they shouldn't be financially responsible and I understand you can't keep everybody. I have no problem with Tyson being traded, but I'd like to see them get more than a bag of balls in return. Al Harrington or Troy Murphy, that's fine. PJ Brown? I'd fold and live to trade another day.

After signing Wallace and extending Kirk later this summer, the Bulls should be just beyond the cap. Keeping Gordon & Deng the following year would put them in the upper echelon of NBA payrolls, but by no means would they be like the Knicks.

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Missed a Little

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:21 am

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I love this signing, Ben Wallace is what this team needs. Tyson is no Ben Wallace, not even close. It's an insult to Wallace. I think if Chandler is ever going to amount to anything it has to be in a different city.

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Woodridge Ryan

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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:02 am

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I got to admit OG Fan, I was a little surprised when Nas typed that Wallace wouldn't leave Detroit. Let's keep this in mind. In the year 2006, loyalty has almost gone completely out the window. They all go for more money (and I see nothing wrong with that, fine by me). I realize that Wallace had some issues with the coaching staff, but even so, I THINK money would have won out - especially with this offer.

Best defense in the NBA? Ehh, I don't know about that, but they'll be right up there. This certainly isn't going to hurt their low opponent's FG% shooting. I think having Wallace on the team is going to open up things more for our scorers anyway. The thing I am excited about is the fact Wallace does rebound and go straight back to the hoop offensively if it's there. I can't remember how many times Chandler would get the rebound, stand there with no one challenging him to the hoop, and he'd end up kicking the ball back out to the top of the key and the Bulls would re-run the offense. Many a times the crowd has boo'ed him for this.

The only thing I fear about Wallace is that Skiles doesn't have favorites on a team. He's not going to treat him any different just because "he deserves it."

Does anyone else wish the season started in two weeks or less? I can't wait.

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A7X

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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:20 am

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It was definitely about the money. The Piston's couldn't pony up the extra 10 mil. On the other hand, I think Ben would have took less and stayed if Larry Brown or even Rick Carlisle were still coaching the team. He obviously didn't get along with Saunders. He reportedly told Pax and Skiles that he wanted to play for a coach who would push him more. Hello Scotty.

I love the first two years of this deal. It's the last two I'm hinky about.

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Weezy F. Baby

Post subject:

Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 12:47 pm

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:59 pm
Posts: 248

Who can gaurd LeBron...Nocioni and Thabo can gaurd him.

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Weezy F. Baby

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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:05 pm

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 8:59 pm
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Nas you are correct, I am truly sorry for the misquote, it was President Haywood.

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Woodridge Ryan

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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:56 pm

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My bad Nas, I remember that quote and assumed it was you when he said that. My bad!

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Spinnin' Bucket

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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:54 am

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Yep, that was me.

I didn't expect the Pistons to low-ball him and I didn't expect the Bulls to offer as much as they did.

Either way, the direction they go with Tyson Chandler this offseason will be telling. I'm hoping they ship him off to Minnesota, Atlanta, Golden State, or Cleveland in a sign & trade. If he ends up going to New Orleans in a salary dump, then there was no point to signing him in the first place.

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good dolphin

Post subject:

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:04 am

Joined: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:35 pm
Posts: 82242

Am I the only one who would like to see if Wallace will be able to have some affect on Chandler's game? I will not go as far as Nas and currently equate Chandler with Wallace, but I do think Chandler has the ability to exceed Wallace.

If he gets trades I don't think it will be a move to come back to bite you as I don't think he will ever be a complete player. I'd just like to see what he can become.

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Bulldog Scott

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Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:06 pm

Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:59 pm
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I didn't realize that you preferred Chandler over Wallace.

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Juiced

Post subject:

Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 2:18 pm

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:06 am
Posts: 6861

Can we finally stop all this Chandler VS. Wallace crap. There is no comparison, Wallace is an all-star with a championship ring. Chandler a nice rebounder with poor defensive and offensive skills.

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Juiced

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:07 am

Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:06 am
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Quote:

What? A season worth of bad play gets erased because of one good half? Go away retard. It's obvious you didn't watch basketball this year.

If you think the Bulls would be better off with Chandler at Center during these playoff games then you are the "retard". He is a leader defensively and someone who has the experience this team needs to get to the next level.

Funny being called a retard from someone who had A) The Cubs winning the world series. B) Mark Prior leading them to the World Series :roll:

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Bulldog Scott

Post subject:

Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:16 am

Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:59 pm
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Quote:

Nas wrote:

What? A season worth of bad play gets erased because of one good half? Go away retard. It's obvious you didn't watch basketball this year.

Nas, I would hardly say that Wallace was BAD this year. He was overpaid and didn't play up to his expectations, but it's not like he was overpaid like Eddie Robinson was overpaid. He at least put up decent numbers and played well in the 2nd half of the season.

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Bulldog Scott

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Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 11:55 am

Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:59 pm
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Quote:

Nas wrote:

He wasn't terrible and as I said in the Heat vs Bulls thread I think he will play well in the playoffs. That doesn't erase the fact that he is making at least $6M a year more than he deserves. Like I said in the offseason Chandler is a younger and potentially better version on him. I got killed for that statement but it was proven this year. Wallace numbers have dropped 4 years in a row and will continue to. My point is he may help them advance in the playoffs this year but he will be useless when the Bulls become a championship caliber team in a couple years. They could have found better use for that money.

I wasn't questioning that Chandler at $11M is better than Ben at $15M. You just wrote that Ben was bad all year, and that's just not true.
Salaries aside, I would much rather have Ben than Tyson THIS YEAR in these playoffs.

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sportsfan

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Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:48 pm

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Nas wrote:

I know everyone is in love with this signing because of the way Wallace plays the game. I just see this as a big mistake. The Bulls improved significantly in an area, they were already very good in. That would be defense. Going into the offseason no one thought the Bulls needed to address defense. What the Bulls were looking for was a big guy who could score in the paint. With the signing of Wallace taking away all of the Bulls cap money, I believe it is safe to say that issue hasn't been addressed.

Also, I believe the dumping of Chandler will come back to haunt the Bulls next year. Chandler is 8 years younger than Wallace and has a bigger upside. He would have been able to fill the "Wallace" roll for at least the next 10 years. I think Chandler had a pretty good year last year considering he didn't get the chance to work on his game during the summer because of his contract situation. This year was going to be his breakout year.

Comparing the numbers of Wallace and Chandler there isn't that big a difference with the exception of Wallace having a track record. Chandler averaged 5.3 PPG, 9 Reb, 1.32 Blk and 26.8 MPG. While Wallace average 7.3 PPG, 11.3 Reb, 2.21 Blk and 35.2 MPG. Obviously Wallace has the superior stats. Lets look a little closer. From Jan 21st through the end of the season(43games), Chandler averaged 10.56 Reb a game in only 26 mins. That means he averaged almost a half a rebound (0.41) per min played. So theoretically if he played the same 35 mins Wallace played his rebounding average would have increased by 3.66 per game. Giving him an average of 14.22 RPG. You can do the same thing with points and blocks as well and you will see they are virtually the same player. With the only exception being Wallace stays out of foul trouble.

It makes no sense for the Bulls to dump or trade away all of their young talent to bring in veterans because they are not going to win a title in the next couple of years. At the rate they are going now they might have to rebuild after the 2009 season. Signing Al Harrington and a guy like Nazi Muhammad would have made more sense and they still would have had some financial flexibility. Why won’t Paxson let the Bulls grow together like Krause did with Jordan?

For the guys that are wondering why I thought Ben wouldn't come to the Bulls it’s quite simple. I never thought the Bulls would overpay this much for a guy that is all effort and no talent. On top of that, the Pistons would be able to offer him more money than the Bulls could, but we see that didn't happen. Joe Dumars is a smart guy. He realizes he can bring another guy in with similar talent for a fraction of the cost and not really miss a beat.

Kudos to you, Nas. :salut:

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