Yep. LeBron was terrible in that Magic series. Averaged 40-8-8.

You seem to be arguing whether we think Wade is Better than LeBron. No one is doing that. Conspired to play with Wade and Bosh because he knew be couldn't win without Wade and Bosh. When he saw Wade slipping rapidly he bounced again. It was an admittance on his part that he had little chance of doing anything with him. The spin seems to be that he is taking these teams and single handedly making them finals teams. That isn't the case.

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Shaq averaged 20-9 the season the Heat won the title. He simply wasn't the player you think he was. He was a good player at that point. He wasn't dominant and he definitely wasn't commanding triple teams. Wade was on the very short list for best player in the league that year and had a dominant postseason run en route to a title. You are arguing against a statement that is objectively true. Wade won a title. Didn't need LeBron to do it.

Who knows what happens if them two and bosh never team up. Maybe Wade wins another maybe he doesn't. It's impossible to know. He was still heading into that offseason as one of the best players in the league still though, an All NBA first teamer.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Why is the onus on LBJ to go it alone and not Wade and Bosh? They are equal co-conspirators. If LBJ's two titles with the Heat have an asterisk then that asterisk has to apply to Bosh and Wade as well. Like I said before, LBJ has a record of non-title success outside of Bosh and Wade when they had teams of similar talent. Bosh and Wade don't have that same record. So, yes, adding the much more accomplished James to the mix single handedly made them a serious contender.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I don't dispute (obviously) that Wade was an all world player. If you want to talk about truths then you also have to deal with the Heat's record once Shaq continued to decline. There's an undeniable correlation there that clearly suggests Shaq was not some Taj Gibson type player that you're implying he was. As he declined so did the heat. What also shouldn't be in dispute is that Wade and Shaq comprised a better team than any team LeBron was on prior to 2010. If you really want to compare how LBJ and Wade fared as the leader of their respective teams then you got to compare apples to apples, which is what I did above. When you do that you'll see Wade was far more in need of someone like LBJ than vice versa. LBJ was racking up 60 win seasons playing with Larry Hughes while Wade was putting up 40 win seasons with similar supporting talent.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Vegan Wade had one of the best Finals runs of the past 35 years. That's with Shaq on the team. He ended Josh Howard's career. The guy was an All world player and Bosh was top 10 before he signed with the Heat. LeBron attempted to replicate that with Cleveland. He has for the most part. Kyrie Irving is a top 10 player but he will be never get his due because no matter what it's about LeBron. They need to find a way to get LeBron in the Jordan conversation. Particularly since Kobe is gone.

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Huh? Get him in the conversation? Everywhere you turn today there is talk of Lebron vs. Jordan and is Lebron passing Jordan for GOAT. He is definitely in the conversation

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"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Kyrie would have nothing without LeBron. His record with Cleveland is even worse than Wade's with Miami after Shaq declined. The common denominator is LeBron and that's why he gets all the press. Nothing wrong with Kyrie and Wade being Pippens.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I think LeBron is easily as good as mj. But a ring this year, with these circumstances... No question. Would be goat.

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the world will always the world. your entire existence is defined by your response.

This why it's fallacious to simply go by records. 21 year old kid with this particular roster. Whose going to win with this roster?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CLE/2014.html

One big shitshow of a team and whats he going to do with that?

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Compare that roster against LeBron's NBA finals team from 2007. LBJ makes everyone better. Wade and Irving don't.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

LBJ's roster is better than what Irving had. There are probably 8-10 guys from that team that were out the league in less than 3 years. LBJ is better than Irving. You take Irving off Cleveland and James doesn't return. Take Irving off that team last season and they win nothing. Guys in the league know of that kids talent. It's why James came back.

Irving was also just 21. He won 33 games with a collection of stiffs and also Sat out last 3 weeks because the team was so shitty. I watched a lot of bad basketball because of that kid alone. He is the truth.

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In a sense Wade did sort of go it alone in that Dallas series. If memory serves correct Mourning was as much a factor as Shaq in that particular series. His shot blocking and overall rim protection was more pivotal than anything Shaq did.

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LeBron is the best player since Kobe -and I'd say a step above him at this point. All these finals in a row with a few wins sprinkled in is pretty spectacular.


It's not Jordan level or anything like that, but it is remarkable in its own right. But of course, some people won't accept this and continue to ask what he can do to surpass MJ -even tho LeBron lead teams already flopped too many times in the finals for that to happen.

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If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

Except that Wade has a ring without LeBron and was HoF level great prior to teaming up with him, but other than that..

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If the rule you followed lead you to this, of what use was the rule?

You seem to have missed some posts where the point you think you're making was already established. Let me repeat it:

1) LBJ never had a co-star like Shaq
2) When Shaq declined, the Heat resembled the Cavs: one star and nothing else.
3) LBJ enjoyed more team success than Wade did when their respective teams were similarly talented (or not talented), meaning when Shaq declined
4) Points #2-3 above strongly suggest LBJ would have won a title without teaming up with Wade since he was leading a team of scrubs to the playoffs annually, and Wade was putting up 40-win seasons at the same time.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Dwayne Wade is the reason Miami defeated Dallas in 06. Shaq played a very minor role during that series.

LeBron James doesn't win a ring without teaming up with Wade and Bosh that's why he teamed up with Wade and Bosh. Purely speculative to suggest otherwise.

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Another LTG-ism. If it's speculative to suggest that LBJ would have won without Wade then it's also speculative to say he wouldn't have won without teaming up with Wade.

Shaq was good during that season; Wade dominating the finals doesn't refute the overall contention.

Wade did nothing when Shaq declined. James excelled with sub par temmates. Wade's got nothing to show for his career outside of gaudy individual stats when he wasn't paired with an all star teammate.

_________________
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Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

He never won prior to teaming up Wade. That is sort of you know factual.

LeBron James is a better player than Wade. No one is disputing that. It still doesn't discount the fact that he needed Wade to win a ring. Shaq isn't the reason Wade has a ring.

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Yes he so obviously is. Can you list Wade's non-Shaq or LeBron titles? Finals appearances? Conference finals appearances? He's got nothing.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Wade was by far the best player on that Miami team.

James bailed on Cleveland after realizing he'd have trouble getting out of the 2nd round going forward.

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Not addressing the point. Why is Wade's record when Shaq was injured and then gone so terrible if he's capable of "winning it all on his own?".

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Is this a bit? Outside of the three titles and Finals MVP he won Wade's never won anything!

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Is Shaq the reason Miami won in 06?

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Y

I said titles without LBJ or Shaq. Trying to compare apples to apples here.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Take away the titles LeBron has won with Wade or Kyrie and he's got zero titles too. Not sure what the point of saying something like that is.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Without Shaq they don't win. That's why they didn't repeat and that's also why when Shaq stopped playing Miami basically became a team that should have been contracted out of the league. And this is with peak Wade.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

The argument is who was more in need of the other to win it all. I don't accept that because Wade won with Shaq in 2006 he was less in need of LBJ to win again. Wade was at the bottom of the league for multiple seasons once Shaq declined and then left. LBJ won 125 regular season games over two seasons during the same time. He was fine and would have been fine. Wade was the needy one.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

They were only at the bottom of the league for one year, the year Wade got hurt, illustrating his 30 win value. Cleveland had a better team around LeBron in 2008-2009 than Wade did in Miami

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

From speculative to hyperbolic. What's next? Wade is only a Hall of Fame player because he played with Shaq and Lebron?

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