Even though the Bears have lost Gilmore and Berrian, and possibly Ayanbadejo, they're most likely going to get compensatory picks for the '09 draft. Heck, even if Ruben Brown signs elsewhere, he'll help in determining how many/where the Bears comp picks are.

A review of how comp picks work:

"First, a review of how compensatory picks work. Under the NFL's collective bargaining agreement, teams that lose more or better "compensatory" free agents than they acquire in a year are eligible to receive compensatory draft choices. No team can receive more than four. The choices range from the third to the seventh rounds, and they are all positioned at the bottom of the round.

The NFL Management Council determines the number and value of the compensatory picks, and it guards the secrecy of its compensatory formula like Coke guards its secret recipe. This much is known: The NFL formula is based on salary, playing time, postseason awards and the net of free agents lost versus free agents signed."

I would guess that the lose of Berrian and Ayanbadejo would be woth high amounts (3rd or 4th round picks) based on this reasoning.

Of course all of this is dependent on what the Bears do the rest of this free agency period. Even though Berrian is gone, still liklely to get something of value back for him.

Do the Bears get compensatory picks for keeping Grossman?

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My Maserati does 186.

Yes, it pretty much guarantees a top 5 selection in the 2009 draft.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Don't count on high compensation for Berrian.

Briggs may have, as he was a pro bowler.

When the Bears lost Colvin, they didn't get jack shit in return - even though he signed one of the biggest contracts that year.

He missed most of the season with a hip injury - maybe that played into it....

I wouldn't expect much more than a 4th or 5th rounder as compenation for Berrian. ...and they won't get it until the '09 Draft.

Aren't these picks determined after the season and the teams results?

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"Woof Woof"

Bears didn't get anything back for Colvin because they signed Kordell and Desmond Clark.

Sign two, lose one, gets you no comp picks back.

The only draft that will really matter is the one after Angelo and Lovie are fired.

This is exactly the kind of logic that will keep the Bears mired in mediocrity. That Super Bowl season was a fluke that Lovie parlayed into a long-term contract. That was the first mistake. I would have given him a two year contract after the SB, take it or leave it. Just because other people in the industry are dumbasses handing out long-term contracts doesn't mean everyone has to be that dumb. Only in sports does one good year buy you several more.

Take yourself out of the sports world for a minute. Let's say you have an employee who has one great year, but then fails to meet expectations the year after. In most businesses, they get a performance improvement plan and a one year max leash before they are shown the door. Do you give them 3 years to straighten out poor performance? Only in sports or certain other businesses (like broadcasting) do you find managers foolish enough to give long-term contracts and stick themselves with poor performers. CEOs of multi-billion dollar businesses with much greater levels of responsibility usually get less of a leash than football coaches. Go figure.

Wasn´t it because Jerry Angelo failed to check a box?

He forgot to check Dwayne Bates and Warrick Holdman's boxes - so he matched both offers - then cut Bates.

That´s right, thanks Grid...

Nas, I understand the need to give some players long term contracts to build continuity. I'm talking about coaches and GMs here, not players. I don't understand giving them long contracts until they have proven themselves over several years at least, not one. It's not all Lovie's fault. Angelo needs to be on an even shorter leash than Lovie. I'm not crazy about Lovie's offensive skills or ability to coach offensive assistant coaches, but Angelo isn't giving him squat on offense to work with either. And almost every offensive draft choice he has made has been a bust.

Stop getting suckered into the BS newsies and radio yakkers sell to the intellectually unscrupulous. Next time this comes up, try to think about "talent" like Danielle Manning, Mike Green, Chris Harris, and last but not least, the playmate stuffing Adam Archuleta, and General Futility who plays at both all-important Cover 2 positions of SS and FS.

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"It's not exactly a rocket surgery." D.J.

Vasher, Briggs, Tillman, Brown, Anderson, Tommy Harris. Only one of those 6 guys was a first rounder. That's a pretty damn good track record. And if he can stay healthy (big if), I still think Dvoracek is going to be very good.

Do me a favor, if you have time and curiousity, put together a two column sheet, defensive stars on the left busts on the right. Limit it to Angelo's tenure with the Bears and cover both draft and trades/FA signings. Let us know which column is longer. I don't have this info in front of me but my gut feeling tells me that Angelo just got a few good hands dealt here and there.

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"It's not exactly a rocket surgery." D.J.

Michael Haynes? A littany of garbage he picked up in later rounds? You and Nas have the allmighty spreadsheet. Distill it.

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"It's not exactly a rocket surgery." D.J.

List by year of the defensive players drafted by Angelo, you can decide who is a bust. I'd also argue Hester is a defensive bust.

Here is an oddity...Why did he draft 2 cbs last year after signing Vasher and Tillman? I'll give him a little pass on AA because that was more Lovie's decision but yes Angelo is ultimately responsible.

2 62 Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan
3 94 Michael Okwo LB Stanford
5 167 Kevin Payne SAF Louisiana-Monroe
5 168 Corey Graham CB New Hampshire
7 221 Trumaine McBride CB Mississippi


2 42 Danieal Manning FS Abilene Christian
2 57 Devin Hester DB Miami (Fla.)
3 73 Dusty Dvoracek DT Oklahoma
4 120 Jamar Williams LB Arizona State
5 159 Mark Anderson DE Alabama

6 181 Chris Harris FS Louisiana-Monroe
7 220 Rod Wilson LB South Carolina

1 14 Tommie Harris DT Oklahoma
2 47 Tank Johnson DT Washington
4 110 Nathan Vasher CB Texas
4 112 Leon Joe LB Maryland
5 147 Claude Harriott DE Pittsburgh
7 215 Alfonso Marshall CB Miami (Fla.)

1 14 Michael Haynes DE Penn State
2 35 Charles Tillman CB Louisiana-Lafayette
3 68 Lance Briggs OLB Arizona
4 100 Todd Johnson DB Florida
4 116 Ian Scott DT Florida
5 171 Tron LaFavor DT Florida
6 191 Joe Odom LB Purdue

3 72 Roe Williams CB Tuskegee
4 104 Alex Brown DE Florida
5 140 Bobby Gray DB Louisiana Tech
5 165 Bryan Knight DE Pittsburgh

4 103 Karon Riley DE Minnesota

Thanks! Busts are in bold. All eighteen of them. Twelve non-busts.

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"It's not exactly a rocket surgery." D.J.

You have no idea that all of the picks from the last two years will all be busts, and I'm pretty sure that the 6th rounder Harris wasn't a bust.

Besides, without comparable lists from other GMs, which I don't have the time to put together, it's all arguing in a vacuum. It's tough to say how good any percentage is.

Graham was a value pick as he was projected to go around the third round but fell due to injury. Mc Bride was the best player available. Unlike Coach, I think Mc Bride was a success story. While he did get beat, he also played well at times. I like him going into the future.

In the 7 years of Angelo, out of 32 NFL teams, the Bears have been 26th, 29th, 28th, 32nd, 29th, 15th and 27th in total offense. I think that bottom line performance over 7 years is pretty good evidence that Angelo sucks at recognizing offensive talent.

My problem with that is, how much of that is predicated upon the QB situation? You could blame him for the Grossman pick, but there simply was no other QB to be had in that draft. None. They all sucked, except for Carson Palmer, and they weren't getting him. After 2002 it was abundantly clear that we needed to draft a QB, and that's what he did. After that, once you've drafted a QB first round and dedicated the cap space, you are pretty much required to see how the situation plays itself out, and the multiple injuries forced his hand in that regard as well.

I've argued this before, and I'll argue it again: without a hall-of-fame level QB, your team is going to ebb and flow. After an 11-5 season and a 13-3 season with a Super Bowl bid (and enough with this "lucked into the Super Bowl"; they were far and away the best team in an admittedly weak NFC, but ask the Cowboys or the Packers how far that'll get you). This year they had a 7-9 season with a pythageorean that indicates that the record is an accurate indication of the quality of the team, with a lingering injury to the best lineman (who played better at the end of the year), your superstar linebacker (who played better at the end of the year) and at one point your two #15 cornerbacks, one of whom was out all season. Injuries happen and there's no guarantee they won't happen again, but that accounts for at least part of that ebb and flow.

Plus, we still have no idea what the roster of this team is going to be in July. We have no idea what the draft strategy is going to be. We're 4 days into the FA period. Everyone should back off the ledge.

If his strategy is all draft he needs a new one. They'd need 10 fucking picks in the first 2 rounds to almost fix the offense. Even then they'd be all rookies. Get a new fucking plan.

They could have passed on the Hall of Fame career of Michael Haynes and taken Byron Leftwich.

Also, there was a little known QB named Tony Romo to be had as well if you had an eye for talent.

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My Maserati does 186.

Irish Boy,
You keep on going back to the Grossman pick and saying that there was no other QB to be had in that draft. That's true. That's also not the point.

For five years, and now six, it's been Rex Grossman and a bunch of scrubs. Kyle Orton has been the second best QB in that time frame and he was drafted to hold a clipboard for a couple years.

Look at what has happened to Kyle Boller and Byron Leftwich, who were drafted ahead of Grossman. Jerry Angelo has had no acceptable backup plan for a late first round draft pick. That's the problem.

Our QB situation has been so dependent on the play of one QB and he's failed to deliver. It is a failing of Jerry Angelo that this is the year that we finally have a QB who may be capable of beating out Grossman, and that's a big question.

Stewart, Hutchinson, Chandler, Quinn, Krenzel and Griese are the problem. I won't include Burris or Blake because they weren't really factors in anything. Orton is still unknown.

This doesn't have to do with cap space. It doesn't have to do with injuries. It has to do with a late first round NFL draft pick, who happens to be the fourth QB taken, being considered the obvious answer to our QB position for 5 years with no contingency plan.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Byron Leftwich has also been bad. If they had drafted Byron Leftwich, we'd be having this exact same discussion. And come on, Tony Romo was undrafted. His ex-coach convinced the front office to take a flier on him and let him sit on the bench for a year. That works out once out of 100 times.

Here's the QB chronology:

2003: Grossman is drafted. Chandler and Stewart are the QBs, but they both suck, so Grossman is playing by the end of the season.

2004: Grossman is injured in Week 3 in Minnesota. The lack of a back-up QB becomes abundantly clear.

2005: Not wanting to invest another high draft pick on a QB, the Bears draft Kyle Orton in Round 4. I suppose they could have drafted Charlie Frye or Andrew Walter in Round 2 or 3. Grossman is injured in the preseason. Orton and a stout defense make a playoff run, but the deficiencies of the rookie become abundantly clear, and Grossman is put back in after recovery. The team receives a bye and loses in the divisional round against a Carolina team who had shut out the Giants one week earlier. The problem wasn't the offense, but the defense, who couldn't stop Steve Smith.

2006: Not wanting to go into the season with an often-injured Grossman and less-than-impressive youngster Orton, the Bears sign perhaps the best QB on the open market, Brian Griese, who went 5-1 the year before in Tampa Bay before getting injured. After 8 weeks, 7 of which were unbelievably good performances, the wheels start to fall off the Grossman bus, although the team continues winning. The Bears make it to the Super Bowl, where they lose to the Colts.

2007: Drafting with the 31st pick, the Bears decide to pass on QBs Kevin Holb, John Beck and Trent Edwards and instead add a weapon to the offense with Greg Olsen, who was impressive as a rookie. The Bears maybe could have rigged together a trade for Brady Quinn when he slipped like the Browns did, but something tells me that you guys would have bitched about that just as much.

So what of Kyle Boller and Byron Leftwich? The Ravens brought in a stopgap solution with Steve McNair who led the offense to mediocrity and field goals in the playoffs against the Colts, and then fell apart the next year. The Jaguars drafted a mid-round QB just in case, which is what the Bears did, and if Boilermaker Rick is to be believed, Orton is going to make a Garrard-like vitalization this year. But if that happens, wouldn't that be a credit to Jerry Angelo? And if it doesn't... well, how often do mid-round QBs work out?

Meanwhile, where are these big free agent QBs we should have brought in? Brian Griese was probably the biggest name between 2005 and 2006 except Steve McNair, and he wouldn't have gone anywhere for a competition or to backup. Plus, he sucked by the end of the year anyway. Who are the other big-time QBs we didn't bring in. Daunte Culpepper? Trent Dilfer? Kurt Warner? Dirk Diggler? (Sorry, couldn't help myself.) The only one you could possibly make an argument for is Drew Brees, but once again, that he wouldn't have gone anywhere for a competition, and the Bears had a 1st round QB on their roster who they needed to get a final answer on, considering he hadn't even played one season's worth of games.

The 3 best OFFENSIVE players that Angelo has drafted are: Bernard Berrian, Rex Grossman and Greg Olsen. That's absolutely pathetic!!

Here's all his picks on the offensive side:
G. Olsen
G. Wolfe
J. Beekman
A. Brant
J.D. Runnels
T. Reed
C. Benson
M. Bradley
K. Orton
A. Currie
B. Berrian
C. Krenzel
R. Grossman
B. Wade
J. Gage
B. Forsey
B. Anderson
M. Columbo
T. Metcalf
A. Peterson
J. Elliott
B. Fletcher

I don't judge Jerry Angelo by just one pick or just one draft....I don't have to. There's 6 years of shit supporting the fact that he can't draft offense. His time in Tampa probably follows this pattern as well.

It sure would have been nice if Lovie played Beekman in the last quarter of the season. Then, if he drafts a OT #1 he would at least have a player with a little seasoning. Still the Jets went started Feguson and Mangoo as rookies on the OL and did not seem to have a problem.

I disagree. Your phrasing does not tell the whole story here. Yes, he "has been" bad. But, prior to his injury he was improving each year and at the time of his ankle injury was an average to good QB in the league.

If his development had continued, he could have developed into a top 12 QB in the league consistently.

Would I want the post-injury Leftwich now, Jerry? No. But, he would have been a better QB than Grossman has shown to be at this point. The injuries are a crapshoot.

Romo, I agree, would have been finding gold in the sewers. But, he wasn't completely unknown, especially here in Illinois. I knew of him and it's not my job to do so. If anybody should have taken a flyer on him, it should have been the Bears. But, I won't hold that against them.

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My Maserati does 186.

Best signature ever Doc.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul