Maybe Michael Reinsdorf has some balls.

I doubt it is going to happen, like vegan, but there does seem to be more and more smoke regarding him.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

Nah. I think he wants another exhilarating playoff season where we lose in the second round this time. Progress! Watch. This Butler stuff will pass, Wade will re-sign, maybe Rondo is let go, and then we'll sign Deron Williams or some other big-name has-been to generate "excitement."

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

This won't gut me as badly as Starlin but it'll hurt.

_________________
Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Finally, someone who seems to realize it's not a great idea to trade Butler if you're the Bulls

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Do you have a way out of basketball hell or are you content with mediocrity plus a couple of semi-thrilling first or second round playoff series from time to time?

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Yes. You sign one more great player in free agency and then you're a contender. You're already halfway there with Butler. If you trade him now you're likely gonna be a terrible team for years.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

There's no one out there currently who will make them a contender. Anthony Davis is that type of guy but by the time he'll be on the market Butler will be too old to rely on as a franchise player. Sell high.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

There's no reason to sell at all. It's just stupid. Like the author of that article points out, players as good as Butler shouldn't be available

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

The Market for Butler has never been as high as GarPax believed it should be. They aren't going to trade Butler. They always overvalue their own guys. That will be the excuse though something tells me that the cap friendly contract has something to do with it too.

_________________

That piece was out of town stupid - he didn't become a two way player until very recently. He was a defensive stopper with limited offense when he started. Shift the balance of power in the NBA? No way. The piece was probably funded by a Butler surrogate.

Again, his skills will translate into success once the team gets better. That's not going to happen soon enough, so you either enjoy All-NBA play from your starting SG on a 45 win team for the next three years, or you start over.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Cleveland rumors are funny, they don't have any assets outside Irving and James and way over the luxury tax.. Drafting second to last... How could anybody report such nonsense.


Pax is scared to deal with Ainge, he knows Ainge is smarter and will fleece his dumb Ass.

_________________

This post is just silly. It was a good article and shows just how in town stupid many people here are being about this

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Pretty much all the reports say that for Clev to be involved they have to add a third team to the mix.

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

I made plenty of valid points in that post. Do you agree with the author about Butler being this sensational two-way player his whole career? What about my point on Butler needing a better supporting cast to really turbocharge this team's chance for post-season success, and how that help isn't coming before Butler is too old for it to matter? I'm not making this argument if Butler is 24 years old.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

It's just as ridiculous, no team wants Cleveland's crap in exchange for good young players or high draft picks.

_________________

The article never said he's always been a sensational two way player. And yes I agree with the author that he's always had two way talent, and that talent has shown itself the past several years and he's improved every single year.

His team will do better when he gets better teammates. That's a strong take, but I agree. For some reason you think the Bulls are incapable of improving their team.

He's 27. There's no reason to think he doesn't have 5-6 more great years. You're acting like he's 31. Considering he's still improving every year it's worth building a team around a guy like that unless someone blows you away with an offer. Several of you want to dump him for pretty much anything which would be a horrible idea.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Farvefan... You are fuckin dreaming if you think Butler is on this team when his contract is up, he doesn't like this inept organization and can't wait to get in a new team and win.

_________________

They have not done very well at this thing over the last 15 years aside from a stroke of luck that landed them an MVP PG that couldint stay healthy

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."

He'll be 28 when the season starts. There are obvious reasons for believing that GarPax cannot improve this team. Have you been watching the past two years? Who wants to dump him for anything? There should be high returns for a player of Butler's caliber - I'd take that over 45 win seasons and second round playoff exits, which is what you seem to be aiming for.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Most guys don't turn down an extra $50-70 million in the middle of their prime. He would stay. Especially if they were able to supplement him with any type of talent.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You keep misrepresenting what having Butler means, which is why you're wrong here. You think 45 win seasons and 1st round playoff exits are the ceiling of the team with him. We've seen with how inept the coaching and front office have been that that's actually close to the floor of a Butler led team. The ceiling is much higher if they are able to improve the team.

And that brings me to the second point. If you think the front office is incapable of improving the team then why do you give a shit if they get one or two extra lottery picks to attempt it? If you have zero confidence in them improving the team I'm not sure why you would even bother having this discussion in the first place. It wouldn't matter either way.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Well the second point is what IMU has said in the past, and I agree with him. For me, if Gar leaves but Pax stays, then I can grudgingly say that he's somewhat capable of turning this around. But that's not a high bar since I'm comparing him to the dumpster fire that is Forman.

We somewhat agree on Butler's talent but differ on the extent to which the team can improve, and the timeframe for doing so. You keep vaguely stating that the Bulls' ceiling will be higher once they are "able to improve the team," but you haven't offered a path to doing that other than to say they should sign "one more great player" in free agency (by the way, I guess this is your strong take ), even though that's not possible for the time being. Here's the thing: they're not going to turn it around this season. That's pretty much guaranteed. Then in 2018 you're going to rely on players like Wiggins and Cousins being on the market. Are they going to come here or stick with their teams? And are guys like that even good enough to get us past what is likely going to be Boston in the east, and GS in the west? Doubtful. And if you strike out, Butler is 29 with lots of mileage.

This is why I'm in the trade Butler crowd. It has nothing to do with Butler but more to do with a bleak forecast over the next 2-3 years that would end up diminishing the value of your best (and only) asset.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Rosenbloom sums it up nicely.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/ro ... olumn.html

_________________

What would be the lots of mileage on him? I would argue he would actually be a fairly young 29 given his time in the league and lack of deep playoff runs, etc.

But anyway, yeah I mean I don't know what other path you would suggest to improve the team beside free agency. You can hope for a miracle great pick in the middle of the 1st round but that seems less likely.

I think if you got rid of Hoiberg, which I know isn't happening before next summer, and ran the same team back next year with Rondo the solidified PG it would be a 46-50 win team. Then you replace Wade hopefully with another top level guy, hope guys like this year's pick and Portis develop, etc.

I much prefer that to trading him for less than he's worth, which would also indirectly buy this front office you despise more time since they wouldn't be expected to compete now without Butler. If they fuck up the one high pick they would get then you're looking at 3-4 years minimum of 20 win teams. Fuck that.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Bulls team was much more effective once they took the Ball out of his hands.

_________________

He also played 4 yrs of college ball. Most players at his level would have 3 more years of NBA wear and tear by now.

_________________
“Mr. Trump is unfit for our nation’s highest office.”- JD Vance
“My god, what an !diot.”- JD Vance tweet on Trump
“I’m a ‘Never Trump’ guy”- JD Vance

Butler told Cavs he doesn't want a trade and wants to stay in Chicago.

From David Aldridge.

_________________

Technically, Joe Cowley can confirm this because he said Butler was both pushing for a deal to Cleveland and also wanting to stay in Chicago.

Why does it matter what he wants? The team needs to do what they think is best, not what the player wants

_________________
"He is a loathsome, offensive brute
--yet I can't look away."