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FavreFan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:56 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
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veganfan21 wrote:
Summer league sucks and so does Fred Hoiberg.

/Thread

You wanted this rebuild. You better get excited about this summer league bullshit my friend.


Nah. I wanted Butler traded but not for a cripple as the centerpiece of the deal. To be honest I'm probably not going to care as long as Gar[bage) is there. I reserve my rights to be a fair weather fan if things somehow turn around.

The centerpiece is Bargnani 2.0.

You've always been a fair weather fan. Don't fool yourself now. :wink:

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Douchebag
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:58 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
But it's worth repeatedly reminding you that your "summer league games mean something" is disproven by the pst 15-20 years of results and by my still standing offer to evaluate these guys before and after the summer.

Remember when the Bulls won the Summer League last year? That success really translated to the regular season. :)

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FavreFan
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Douchebag wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
But it's worth repeatedly reminding you that your "summer league games mean something" is disproven by the pst 15-20 years of results and by my still standing offer to evaluate these guys before and after the summer.

Remember when the Bulls won the Summer League last year? That success really translated to the regular season. :)

Reminds me of last season when Hawk was bitching about the Cubs farm system ranking being higher and indignantly staying the Sox AAA team had a better record.

Hawk is still the best though.

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long time guy
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:02 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I love how they cite A Bulls game featuring Cameron Payne as the essence of Summer League hoops. I could also cite Chicago State vs Depaul as my starting point. Each and every high draft pick that has been interviewed has stated that the players are better. The players all played for high major colleges. Think they'd know.

This is a bad argument. The high draft picks aren't gonna come out and say the competition is garbage. Cmon.



So they aren't being candid unless they agree with your opinion. Most of the guys playing in the Summer League were the best players on their college team. Bums like Frank Mason dominated college basketball. Do you want meet to show the scintillating highlight reel Lonzo Ball out on against Azuma Pacific or whatever the hell that weak ads team happened to be?


Buddy Hield ripped through weak ass college ball the year before got in the Summer League and got a lining ripped out his ass.

Again I'm not saying that it's the best ball that you ever seen but compared to Purdue and Northwestern I'd take this anyday.

I don't care to respond to any of this. I'm just stating the very obvious - that high profile rookies aren't going to come out and trash their competition in summer league.

I don't even like college basketball so Im not going to continue defending it. But it's worth repeatedly reminding you that your "summer league games mean something" is disproven by the pst 15-20 years of results and by my still standing offer to evaluate these guys before and after the summer.



You and others keep saying that they don't but I can name countless guys that have made NBA rosters from playing in them.

Do you think that GMs coaches and players are attending just so that they can be in Vegas? Guys are getting evaluated. It's really the first time that high draft picks will be evaluated against NBA level competition.

There aren't awards being awarded obviously but I can find out about a player much more from that than I can from watching a guy putup a triple double against UC Parkside.

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Brick
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:04 am 
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I love how they cite A Bulls game featuring Cameron Payne as the essence of Summer League hoops. I could also cite Chicago State vs Depaul as my starting point. Each and every high draft pick that has been interviewed has stated that the players are better. The players all played for high major colleges. Think they'd know.

This is a bad argument. The high draft picks aren't gonna come out and say the competition is garbage. Cmon.



So they aren't being candid unless they agree with your opinion. Most of the guys playing in the Summer League were the best players on their college team. Bums like Frank Mason dominated college basketball. Do you want meet to show the scintillating highlight reel Lonzo Ball out on against Azuma Pacific or whatever the hell that weak ads team happened to be?


Buddy Hield ripped through weak ass college ball the year before got in the Summer League and got a lining ripped out his ass.

Again I'm not saying that it's the best ball that you ever seen but compared to Purdue and Northwestern I'd take this anyday.

I don't care to respond to any of this. I'm just stating the very obvious - that high profile rookies aren't going to come out and trash their competition in summer league.

I don't even like college basketball so Im not going to continue defending it. But it's worth repeatedly reminding you that your "summer league games mean something" is disproven by the pst 15-20 years of results and by my still standing offer to evaluate these guys before and after the summer.



You and others keep saying that they don't but I can name countless guys that have made NBA rosters from playing in them.

Do you think that GMs coaches and players are attending just so that they can be in Vegas? Guys are getting evaluated. It's really the first time that high draft picks will be evaluated against NBA level competition.

There aren't awards being awarded obviously but I can find out about a player much more from that than I can from watching a guy putup a triple double against UC Parkside.
It's still hilarious how bad you fought against a guy I liked on the Bulls roster who was emerging as a decent NBA player while you watch these bums who outside of the rookies are working hard to try and sit on a bench at some point in the next year.

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long time guy
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:05 am 
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As far as people that only watch for entertainment they are selling out 2 gyms simultaneously so obviously someone is being entertained.

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long time guy
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:06 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I love how they cite A Bulls game featuring Cameron Payne as the essence of Summer League hoops. I could also cite Chicago State vs Depaul as my starting point. Each and every high draft pick that has been interviewed has stated that the players are better. The players all played for high major colleges. Think they'd know.

This is a bad argument. The high draft picks aren't gonna come out and say the competition is garbage. Cmon.



So they aren't being candid unless they agree with your opinion. Most of the guys playing in the Summer League were the best players on their college team. Bums like Frank Mason dominated college basketball. Do you want meet to show the scintillating highlight reel Lonzo Ball out on against Azuma Pacific or whatever the hell that weak ads team happened to be?


Buddy Hield ripped through weak ass college ball the year before got in the Summer League and got a lining ripped out his ass.

Again I'm not saying that it's the best ball that you ever seen but compared to Purdue and Northwestern I'd take this anyday.

I don't care to respond to any of this. I'm just stating the very obvious - that high profile rookies aren't going to come out and trash their competition in summer league.

I don't even like college basketball so Im not going to continue defending it. But it's worth repeatedly reminding you that your "summer league games mean something" is disproven by the pst 15-20 years of results and by my still standing offer to evaluate these guys before and after the summer.



You and others keep saying that they don't but I can name countless guys that have made NBA rosters from playing in them.

Do you think that GMs coaches and players are attending just so that they can be in Vegas? Guys are getting evaluated. It's really the first time that high draft picks will be evaluated against NBA level competition.

There aren't awards being awarded obviously but I can find out about a player much more from that than I can from watching a guy putup a triple double against UC Parkside.
It's still hilarious how bad you fought against a guy I liked on the Bulls roster who was emerging as a decent NBA player while you watch these bums who outside of the rookies are working hard to try and sit on a bench at some point in the next year.



If any of these Bums were in the 7 man rotation i'd be bitching about them too.

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FavreFan
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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I love how they cite A Bulls game featuring Cameron Payne as the essence of Summer League hoops. I could also cite Chicago State vs Depaul as my starting point. Each and every high draft pick that has been interviewed has stated that the players are better. The players all played for high major colleges. Think they'd know.

This is a bad argument. The high draft picks aren't gonna come out and say the competition is garbage. Cmon.



So they aren't being candid unless they agree with your opinion. Most of the guys playing in the Summer League were the best players on their college team. Bums like Frank Mason dominated college basketball. Do you want meet to show the scintillating highlight reel Lonzo Ball out on against Azuma Pacific or whatever the hell that weak ads team happened to be?


Buddy Hield ripped through weak ass college ball the year before got in the Summer League and got a lining ripped out his ass.

Again I'm not saying that it's the best ball that you ever seen but compared to Purdue and Northwestern I'd take this anyday.

I don't care to respond to any of this. I'm just stating the very obvious - that high profile rookies aren't going to come out and trash their competition in summer league.

I don't even like college basketball so Im not going to continue defending it. But it's worth repeatedly reminding you that your "summer league games mean something" is disproven by the pst 15-20 years of results and by my still standing offer to evaluate these guys before and after the summer.



You and others keep saying that they don't but I can name countless guys that have made NBA rosters from playing in them.


And I can name countless players who were great who sucked in the real league. doesnt mean shit and my offer is still standing.

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Douchebag
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long time guy wrote:
Do you think that GMs coaches and players are attending just so that they can be in Vegas?

Players? Absolutely.

GMs probably don't care either. The first round draft picks are going to make the team no matter what. The second-round picks will probably be evaluated on whether they can make the roster or if they will need to spend time in the D-league.

These teams practice maybe a few hours before hitting the floor in summer league. It's really just an opportunity for guys to get familiar with the team offensive and defensive schemes.

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I will say it's curious to me that shakes seemingly agrees with my opinion on the summer league yet he is drawing conclusions about rookies based on the summer league.

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long time guy
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:11 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Do you think that GMs coaches and players are attending just so that they can be in Vegas?

Players? Absolutely.

GMs probably don't care either. The first round draft picks are going to make the team no matter what. The second-round picks will probably be evaluated on whether they can make the roster or if they will need to spend time in the D-league.

These teams practice maybe a few hours before hitting the floor in summer league. It's really just an opportunity for guys to get familiar with the team offensive and defensive schemes.



No one is being cut or traded but if a high draft pick looks shitty in Summer League there is a good chance they will be shitty once the season starts. Most times you can bank on them being shitty for the entirety of their rookie season or beyond.

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veganfan21
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Summer league sucks and so does Fred Hoiberg.

/Thread

You wanted this rebuild. You better get excited about this summer league bullshit my friend.


Nah. I wanted Butler traded but not for a cripple as the centerpiece of the deal. To be honest I'm probably not going to care as long as Gar[bage) is there. I reserve my rights to be a fair weather fan if things somehow turn around.



FavreFan wrote:
The centerpiece is Bargnani 2.0.


It's the cripple. The pick is just some guy they hope can develop into the kind of shooter you can get as a free agent or as the 28th pick in the draft. Ingenious pick at 7.

FavreFan wrote:
You've always been a fair weather fan. Don't fool yourself now. :wink:


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Douchebag wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Do you think that GMs coaches and players are attending just so that they can be in Vegas?

Players? Absolutely.

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veganfan21
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:13 am 
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long time guy wrote:

No one is being cut or traded but if a high draft pick looks shitty in Summer League there is a good chance they will be shitty once the season starts. Most times you can bank on them being shitty for the entirety of their rookie season or beyond.


Who cares? KG averaged like 6 points in his rookie year.

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long time guy
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:16 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:

No one is being cut or traded but if a high draft pick looks shitty in Summer League there is a good chance they will be shitty once the season starts. Most times you can bank on them being shitty for the entirety of their rookie season or beyond.


Who cares? KG averaged like 6 points in his rookie year.



Hasheem Thabeet looked shitty during Summer League and looked shittier once his NBA career started. So did Johnny Flynn and Acie Law and Wesley Johnson. What's your point?

Each of these guys were high draft picks and college basketball stars. I never thought much and once I saw them in Summer League it was confirmed.

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veganfan21
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:

No one is being cut or traded but if a high draft pick looks shitty in Summer League there is a good chance they will be shitty once the season starts. Most times you can bank on them being shitty for the entirety of their rookie season or beyond.


Who cares? KG averaged like 6 points in his rookie year.



Hasheem Thabeet looked shitty during Summer League and looked shittier once his NBA career started. So did Johnny Flynn and Acie Law and Wesley Johnson. What's your point?


The point is the summer league is meaningless and you can't draw conclusions from it.

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FavreFan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:19 am 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:

No one is being cut or traded but if a high draft pick looks shitty in Summer League there is a good chance they will be shitty once the season starts. Most times you can bank on them being shitty for the entirety of their rookie season or beyond.


Who cares? KG averaged like 6 points in his rookie year.



Hasheem Thabeet looked shitty during Summer League and looked shittier once his NBA career started. So did Johnny Flynn and Acie Law and Wesley Johnson. What's your point?


This means nothing. Devean George was the Michael Jordan of summer league. What's your point?

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long time guy
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:20 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:

No one is being cut or traded but if a high draft pick looks shitty in Summer League there is a good chance they will be shitty once the season starts. Most times you can bank on them being shitty for the entirety of their rookie season or beyond.


Who cares? KG averaged like 6 points in his rookie year.


I also saw KG in 95 at DeLaSalle Pro Am prior to his rookie season and felt he was a player. Didn't matter to me what he did his rookie season because I'd seen enough to feel he could play.

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FavreFan
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:22 am 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:

No one is being cut or traded but if a high draft pick looks shitty in Summer League there is a good chance they will be shitty once the season starts. Most times you can bank on them being shitty for the entirety of their rookie season or beyond.


Who cares? KG averaged like 6 points in his rookie year.


I also saw KG in 95 at DeLaSalle Pro Am prior to his rookie season and felt he was a player. Didn't matter to me what he did his rookie season because I'd seen enough to feel he could play.

How do you feel about Markkanen? You've been attempting to defend him here. Player or nah?

My offer on summer league evaluations still stands.

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long time guy
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:

No one is being cut or traded but if a high draft pick looks shitty in Summer League there is a good chance they will be shitty once the season starts. Most times you can bank on them being shitty for the entirety of their rookie season or beyond.


Who cares? KG averaged like 6 points in his rookie year.



Hasheem Thabeet looked shitty during Summer League and looked shittier once his NBA career started. So did Johnny Flynn and Acie Law and Wesley Johnson. What's your point?


This means nothing. Devean George was the Michael Jordan of summer league. What's your point?



Ronald Murray dropped 30 a game when he first burst on the NBA scene. What's your point? Devean George demonstrated that he belonged in the NBA from playing in the Summer League by the way. You keep referencing him as if he was a lottery pick. He wasn't. Last pick in the first round. He played a number of years in the league. The guys I named were all lottery picks and 3 of them were out the league in less than 4 years and the other guy was a journeyman.
Validation for me occurred after watching them play in the Sumner league.

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long time guy
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:26 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:

No one is being cut or traded but if a high draft pick looks shitty in Summer League there is a good chance they will be shitty once the season starts. Most times you can bank on them being shitty for the entirety of their rookie season or beyond.


Who cares? KG averaged like 6 points in his rookie year.


I also saw KG in 95 at DeLaSalle Pro Am prior to his rookie season and felt he was a player. Didn't matter to me what he did his rookie season because I'd seen enough to feel he could play.

How do you feel about Markkanen? You've been attempting to defend him here. Player or nah?

My offer on summer league evaluations still stands.



I only saw him the first game. In about a week better feel. What evaluation? I forgot.

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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:

No one is being cut or traded but if a high draft pick looks shitty in Summer League there is a good chance they will be shitty once the season starts. Most times you can bank on them being shitty for the entirety of their rookie season or beyond.


Who cares? KG averaged like 6 points in his rookie year.



Hasheem Thabeet looked shitty during Summer League and looked shittier once his NBA career started. So did Johnny Flynn and Acie Law and Wesley Johnson. What's your point?


This means nothing. Devean George was the Michael Jordan of summer league. What's your point?



Ronald Murray dropped 30 a game when he first burst on the NBA scene. What's your point? Devean George demonstrated that he belonged in the NBA from playing in the Summer League by the way. You keep referencing him as if he was a lottery pick. He wasn't. Last pick in the first round. He played a number of years in the league. The guys I named were all lottery picks and 3 of them were out the league in less than 4 years and the other guy was a journeyman.
Validation for me occurred after watching them play in the Sumner league.

Dude literally nothing in this post means anything. I don't know how else to reply but to say that. Some late picks are good and some early picks are total busts. That's it. Summer league has shown, consistently, over the past 20 years that it is not an indicator of future success. I can't put it any more clearly than that.

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long time guy wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:

No one is being cut or traded but if a high draft pick looks shitty in Summer League there is a good chance they will be shitty once the season starts. Most times you can bank on them being shitty for the entirety of their rookie season or beyond.


Who cares? KG averaged like 6 points in his rookie year.


I also saw KG in 95 at DeLaSalle Pro Am prior to his rookie season and felt he was a player. Didn't matter to me what he did his rookie season because I'd seen enough to feel he could play.

How do you feel about Markkanen? You've been attempting to defend him here. Player or nah?

My offer on summer league evaluations still stands.



I only saw him the first game. In about a week better feel. What evaluation? I forgot.

viewtopic.php?f=91&t=107279&start=30#p2749003

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veganfan21
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FavreFan wrote:
Dude literally nothing in this post means anything. I don't know how else to reply but to say that. Some late picks are good and some early picks are total busts. That's it. Summer league has shown, consistently, over the past 20 years that it is not an indicator of future success. I can't put it any more clearly than that.


This sounds like you're agreeing with me about drafts being nearly all luck.

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Douchebag
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:

No one is being cut or traded but if a high draft pick looks shitty in Summer League there is a good chance they will be shitty once the season starts. Most times you can bank on them being shitty for the entirety of their rookie season or beyond.


Who cares? KG averaged like 6 points in his rookie year.

I saw KG crush it in the Proviso West Holiday Tournament in 1995. I knew this was an indicator that he would have a great NBA career.

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Being a star in college is even less of an indicator and what I stated makes perfect sense. I just provided for guys that were dominant players in college looked shitty in the Summer League and went on to look shitty in the pros. I can name guys from the last 2 drafts that haven't done shit that looked shitty in Summer League. I can name a number of guys that dominated that dominated once they hit the league. DeAngelo Russell looked shitty in Summer League looked shitty in the league. Porzingus showed he was a player in the Summer League.

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Douchebag wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:

No one is being cut or traded but if a high draft pick looks shitty in Summer League there is a good chance they will be shitty once the season starts. Most times you can bank on them being shitty for the entirety of their rookie season or beyond.


Who cares? KG averaged like 6 points in his rookie year.

I saw KG crush it in the Proviso West Holiday Tournament in 1995. I knew this was an indicator that he would have a great NBA career.


When he dropped 40 on the Knicks for me in NBA Live 95 I knew it was curtains for the rest of the league.

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long time guy
PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:34 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:

No one is being cut or traded but if a high draft pick looks shitty in Summer League there is a good chance they will be shitty once the season starts. Most times you can bank on them being shitty for the entirety of their rookie season or beyond.


Who cares? KG averaged like 6 points in his rookie year.

I saw KG crush it in the Proviso West Holiday Tournament in 1995. I knew this was an indicator that he would have a great NBA career.



He wasn't playing against NBA superstar Pete Myers at Proviso West. The legendary Pete Myers.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:34 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
FavreFan wrote:
Dude literally nothing in this post means anything. I don't know how else to reply but to say that. Some late picks are good and some early picks are total busts. That's it. Summer league has shown, consistently, over the past 20 years that it is not an indicator of future success. I can't put it any more clearly than that.


This sounds like you're agreeing with me about drafts being nearly all luck.

This sounds like you need to work on reading comprehension.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:36 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Being a star in college is even less of an indicator and what I stated makes perfect sense. I just provided for guys that were dominant players in college looked shitty in the Summer League and went on to look shitty in the pros. I can name guys from the last 2 drafts that haven't done shit that looked shitty in Summer League. I can name a number of guys that dominated that dominated once they hit the league. DeAngelo Russell looked shitty in Summer League looked shitty in the league. Porzingus showed he was a player in the Summer League.

A numbers of guys play well in the summer league and suck. A number of guys suck in the summer league and are good players. A number of guys play well in the summer league and are good players. A numbers of guys suck in the summer league and suck in the NBA. We could literally spend months naming them. Summer league doesn't mean shit.

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