Good to know my B96 phase was actually me consuming "real art".

Ghetto Superstar, that is what you are!

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Dan has no idea what he's talking about.

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Doesn't matter. His people will believe him and suck it up.

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Elections have consequences.

So you guys are saying that Trumpcare is not taking from the poor to give to the rich?

I don't think anyone knows because nothing exists yet. Or we have to pass it to know what is in it. Your choice.

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Elections have consequences.

Pelosi's dumb ass quote is completely irrelevant here. And we do know a lot about this bill. CBO says 20 million plus will lose insurance.

For the house. There is no senate bill at all yet.

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Elections have consequences.

We have a pretty good idea what it's going to look like. I don't need to see all the details to know who will benefit and who will suffer if the GOP gets the health care bill they desire.

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Lay off that whiskey and let that cocaine be.

I'm sure there's an equal chance that whatever passes the Senate is in fact really good and we have to allow for the possibility that it will actually increase and improve coverage. We definitely shouldn't rush to judgment and the Republicans going about this in the least transparent way possible doesn't mean we have to unfairly and automatically expect anything bad!

transparency issues are only republican regarding healthcare.

As for this crowd trust me I have no faith they will repeal which I want. They will doctor as it is in and damage is done. We are stuck forever.

I would expect with a full repeal yes 22 million lose something. In my world start from scratch for a plan including them.

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Elections have consequences.

Yes, the Republicans have been unequivocally far less transparent during this affair than the Dems were when they passed the shit known as Obamacare. And these guys have done a bangup job so far in demonstrating their aptitude for a whole new system; I'm sure those 22 million would be without insurance for a week or two tops if you get your full repeal. A minor inconvenience at best.

The right is not trying to be inclusive it seems to me. If you or anyone here really believes the right is less transparent now than the left during Obamacare reconciliation fiasco you are delusional.

As for inconvenience going back to what people had before and starting over can probably be done using temporary grandfather type clauses.

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Elections have consequences.

The people who actually study public policy for a living must be delusional then (and in before Snopes is a biased source/professors of public policy all have a leftist bent)! Obamacare was debated across multiple bipartisan committees of Congress for months on end well prior to actually passing the House. There have been no equivalent public hearings for any of the replacement plans and all versions at this point have been written in almost complete secrecy, intended to get through the floor with as little bipartisan debate as possible and as little public scrutiny as well.

Also those grandfather clauses you're now advocating sound an awful lot like big government preserving the status quo to me. What happened to starting from scratch??

everyone believes that. they see what is happening.

A type of clause to bridge from now until the new plan after going back to scratch. Follow? And quote whatever you like. My opinion is reconciliation as it was used and "we have to pass it to know what is in it" is. It transparency. Have a good evening.

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Elections have consequences.

Isn't the Democrats stance that it must stay in full? What new ideas will they give?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Ah, so the Republicans are once again optimizing efficiency in government spending by holding literally no public hearings. Hell, most people won't even read bills anyway, so why publicize any part of the drafting process at all?

I didn't realize that all bills passed with reconciliation were equivalent by default in terms of transparency. Have a nice night "But Obamaing."

They do love their talking points don't they?

No, I think it's more accurate to say it would take from the poor to give to the middle class, and take from the old to give to the young.

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Would it be accurate to say that the $275 billion in tax cuts for the top 5% in the House bill and the $33 billion in cuts for the 400 richest families in the first Senate version are middle class benefits?

Regardless of what legislation you are talking about and what specific matter it involves wouldn't a repeal of anything appear as a cut always? This is why I say the health care in some form is here forever. It was given in the form of the ACA and is now going to be entrenched. Now if you try to repeal anything it is automatically a cut benefiting the rich etc.

The perspective could or should be nothing is getting cut. We are stopping a good idea done poorly and simply going back to the original way things were done. Lets try again.

It has been around eight years and was fully implemented less than that. It is not the same as proposing right now to end social security next year.

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Elections have consequences.

If you remove benefits form other people and give tax cuts to the rich, that's a cut benefiting the rich you ignorant gasbag.

Ok gasbag is a good one. You are very wise so explain to me how if one were inclined to repeal this and replace it with a better system how you could avoid a cut? Even if it were temporary or covered with language to ease it yes it has to be cut. And the tax benefit is a trick bag as the taxes were raised to implement the system they want to get rid of.

Oh the "this is a big fucking deal" catch 22 that is government benefit deals. Just get that fucking thing in and it will never be changed, removed or otherwise dealt with because you know... giving the rich cuts and benefits and killing poor people.

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Elections have consequences.

Explain to me how a tax cut has any place in this bill.

You will have to be more specific. What exact cut and what version? The house one or the senate one that is not finished? In general, any cut of a tax initiated by the ACA is fair game to cut if you are on the repeal side.

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Elections have consequences.

As I read this CNN article you can see it is not just a giveaway for the rich. It is, what is the word for it, complicated. Keep in mind this is CNN not Fox/Brebart.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/28/opinions/ ... index.html

"This criticism of the Republican bills is understandable but wrongheaded."

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Elections have consequences.

1) Create bill that raises taxes.
2) When someone wants to repeal it, complain that it is a tax cut even though it simply is getting rid of the taxes that only were raised because of the bill that was passed.

Concentrate on the idea that people will lose coverage(even in the flawed ways that many Democrats are doing it).

Imagine our dumb President and dumb Congress taxed income UNDER 100k at 95%, and then the Democrats came in in 2020 and repealed that. Would that also be a tax cut?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!