I think it's more the teams that signed the criminals were willing to take the flak because they felt those players were still good enough to help them win. Teams don't feel that about Kaep to take that hit for someone who would be a back up.

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

No one bitches to the league or refuses to watch when criminals play. Only when the flag is disrespected.

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I think there's a decent chance an equivalent black quarterback out of college doesn't even get drafted or is out of the league within Fitzpatrick's first 3 seasons. It took him 10 years to be the quarterback on a team with a winning record and I definitely think at the very latest he would've been bounced from Buffalo by the start of 2012. This doesn't even get into the backup roles he's been offered.

Vicks's an excellent example to bring up and he's only started one game less than Fitzpatrick. So we can add him to the list and say you have to have been as good as Moon, Cunningham, McNair, McNabb, or now Vick.

That's because the odds of any undrafted quarterback having a meaningful career is very low. Even the far superior Kurt Warner and Warren Moon had to go to other leagues while Fitzpatrick didn't.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Buffalo Bills are world renowned for creating Fitzpatrick-esque QB's in this league. Tyrod Taylor, EJ Manuel, Cardale Jones... Bills are the backup QB feeder system.

ZephMarshack has to google a little more than he has and let the Fitz thing go. There have been many black qbs and many more to come. There are a ton of factors affecting backup choices. Just look at Cutler. It took an injury to a starter and the head coach has a personal connection. Batch sat here for a decade because the team loved him and they knew he would barely have to play. So many teams have so many weird things that go on that you cannot just say the one black guy is getting screwed over.

Maybe the best comeback story of all time is the black qb Doug Williams being on the scrapheap and being Super Bowl MVP for Washington.

Also my previously mentioned Vince Evans that everyone knew was bad overall played for the Raiders for like 15 years as a backup.

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Elections have consequences.

Correct and I'd say black quarterbacks are more likely to go undrafted than equivalently talented white ones and they're also more likely to be out of the league quicker as well.

This is completely non-responsive to anything I've said.

People who say they have watched one minute less of NFL football because Kaep took a knee are full of shit.

I agree . People are very loyal to their favorite TV shows

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Proud member of the white guy grievance committee

It aint the six minutes. Its what happens in those six minutes.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Maybe, but that is a lot different than what was said earlier.

Ironically, in football, for most opinions, the opposite is true.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

It doesn't contradict anything I said earlier either though and is completely consistent with the idea that there are different standards applied based on race at that position.

It's also far different than this:

...which to me sounds like you are making the case that in order for a black player to last as long as Ryan Fitzpatrick they have to be a hall of famer or a near hall of famer.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Not really that different and completely consistent with everything I've been saying. Any kind of career resembling Fitzpatrick's is an impossibility for a black quarterback precisely because of the different standards they are held to,from the drafting and scouting phase all the way down the number of chances he's gotten. Fitzblacktrick probably goes undrafted, is potentially out of the league within his first 2 years, doesn't start as long in Buffalo and probably doesn't get the same backup opportunities after his performances there. The stat is the stat; only black quarterbacks as good as those 4 have started more games.

You are literally saying you have to nearly be a hall of famer as a black quarterback to last as long as Ryan Fitzpatrick. That is significantly stronger of a statement than saying they are "more likely to go undrafted that equivalently talented white ones and they're also more likely to be out of the league quicker".

As I pointed out, someone like Byron Leftwich got 5 chances. Many other quarterbacks hung around the league for 10+ years and many of those didn't have the "good seasons" that Fitzpatrick had.

I mean, I guess I could be taking what you are saying as a stronger statement than you are actually attempting to make but I don't really think it is fair to make a point that being a black quarterback is significantly more difficult because of one of the strangest careers in NFL history with a guy who kind of sucks but still found a way to keep getting on the field.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm using Fitzpatrick as an example, but I've cited other quarterbacks and of course an actual study that found race was a predictor of a quarterback being benched controlling for everything else. You keep wanting to treat Fitzpatrick as some kind of huge anomaly but I would maintain that his race was an insufficient but absolutely necessary condition for his career to have transpired the way that it has.

That's because Fitzpatrick IS a huge anomaly! I'd argue that Fitzpatrick's career is more unlikely than Tom Brady and how his career has gone.

I do enjoy you using the hypothetical qb card. It's been a while for that.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Rick, which parts of the study that he posted did you disagree with?

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I didn't disagree with the study. I am sure a bias exists.

I just don't think you have to be a near hall of famer to have a successful journeyman career where you are given multiple chances to succeed.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Oh ok. So you essentially agree with Zeph and just didn't like the Fitzpatrick example?

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I agree there is a bias.

I either misread how much bias he believes there is or I don't agree it is near to the level that he is saying it is.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

You may have to limit my opinion to the last 10-15 years but I do not think there is a bias against blacks playing qb in the NFL. Maybe in HS and college there still is some attempt to funnel kids to other positions but if there is a black QB that was a complete stud any NFL coach will play him. It is not your dad's NFL anymore.

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Elections have consequences.

Listen to "Jonathan Hood on Colin Kaepernick 8-8-17" by Jonathan Hood via #spreaker https://www.spreaker.com/user/jhood/jon ... ick-8-8-17

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Does your cousin make money per listen?

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Elections have consequences.

I don't know how he makes money.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Id subscribe to a podcast of him doing exaggerated impressions. He's great at those.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George