This is an example of what market value happens to be. Hopefully "No Great Shakes" is paying attention.

Joe Cowley Thibs/Butler/Guillen shill

Page 3 for those so inclined.

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=104848

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lol right? I forgot about that part of LTG's idiocy. Hayward to the Celtics was the worst kept secret in the NBA this offseason.

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Just like everyone knew that it wouldn't take an All Star guy to acquire Irving also

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=104848

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No one knows if Paul George will be a Laker next season

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

No deal is done til it's done.

Even if that were the case then why would Ainge target Hayward over top 10 Jimmy Butler? Remember when the deal killer was Jae Crowder? Well he sure had no problem dealing him for Irving.

No matter what rationale you use the market was set by the trades involved. Everything else is simply speculation Cleveland decided to trade him for a guy that was a 2nd team all NBA guy and Paxson settled for a guy coming off an ACL injury. Paxson haters will point to this as a sign of his ineptitude but rationale. more objective types like me tend to see it as getting fair "market" value for your asset.

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He won't be.

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Why would Ainge target Hayward over Jimmy Butler? Hmm, maybe because he could get Hayward without having to give up any assets.

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Well, and Brad Stevens.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

and he's locked up for 4 years whereas Butler is going to enter FA soon.



But nope, according to LTG none of these factors matter.

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No Great Shakes you are grasping at this point. Some of your points have validity most don't. When you are a top 10 or top 5 guy like some on here have speculated, they back the truck up for you. Why? because guys like that don't hit the market. Paxson didn't have to trade Butler. He surmised that he wasn't That guy and dealt him before his value diminished. Cleveland had to deal Irving and if Broussard is to be believed they had a deal in place that nets George and Bledsoe but James helped kill it. That's value.

I'm hoping that that the trade for Butler works but I'm speaking as a Bulls fan more than anything. To many unknowns in that deal.

This deal makes the Celtics legit contenders while Butler simply improves The Wolves. Most of the prognosticators believe that Cleveland got the better end of the deal and it still improves Boston more. Think about that.

Also Hayward didn't come for free either. Boston had to move people to sign Hayward. Bradley and others had to be moved to clear cap space. He didn't just sign. Those were essentially trades.

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Bradley Olynyk Amir Johnson among others were moved to clear space for Hayward. You are wrong about not having to give up assets.

I know Bradley went in a trade but his "market" was depreciated because they were trying to clear space.

Also your hypothesis doesn't hold water in this instance because in the case of both Irving and Butler the objective was to get the most "bang for the buck". both teams were hoping to maximize value.

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I think Butler may have a year or 2 left playing at a high level before his body breaks down. I think Kyrie is good for about 10 years before that happens to him. Last season Butler was better and he may be this season. Trades aren't usually made based on what you've done in the past. They are generally made based on what a player may do in the future. I would resign Kyrie long term. I wouldn't touch Thomas and would hesitate to give Butler more than a 3 year deal.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Butler won't make the All Star team this year.

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Well, he's going to be playing in a better conference with more competition (for All-Star spots) and going to a team that has just a bit more talent than the Bulls (#'s may go down), so yea there's a decent shot he won't

It's possible

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

He should be more efficient. If the Wolves are playing like a top 4 team in the West he'll get credit.

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Be well

GO BEARS!!!

Nope. You said that it wouldn't take an All Star Caliber. It obviously did or else he wouldn't have been moved. Also required a high draft pick. I know everything is a GarPax bash fest with you but you missed on this one.

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I said it wouldn't require one by default and gave you multiple examples of all-star level talent in fact being traded for non all-star level talent. You were on your soapbox about Cowley and how the Bulls could've never hoped to attain Irving anyway yet were also on your GarPax excuse-fest.

Kyrie Irving, John Paxson, Michael Reinsdorf, Gar Forman, and Fred Hoiberg are all bitches.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

If he were traded for an All Star then obviously an All Star was required. That doesn't make sense and no other trade is relevant to his when it comes to that.

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Vegan he is nothing without LeBron and he will never be the best player on a team that gets past the first round. The famous words of a once great poster.

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No shit that's what the actual trade ended up being. Shakes has been pointing out relevant contextual factors however and you've been taking your victory lap and acting like it's some indication of some kind of objective value. Again, if you think the Bulls utter lack of assets to even begin to pursue Irving isn't somehow connected to the front office's malfeasance or that pointing out their record of utter failure, we're simply at an impasse.

Never said that. Always said it would matter where he ended up. Got himself traded to the second best team in the conference so now he'll likely ride the coattails of that team to some playoff appearances just like he did with LBJ. He's still a bitch though and he'll never win a ring as the best player.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Shakes's "relevant" facts have little to do with the Kyrie Irving trade. Hypothetical x and hypothetical y have nothing to do with this situation. I could easily make the case that his value was diminished because he called.for a trade and the entire league knew about it. I'm not. I'm accepting that his market value was based on what he was traded for. He was traded for a fairly steep price.

Butler wasn't. You choose to blame GarPax because that is sort of what you do. I don't think everything is the result of management ineptness. I also don't view things through message board populism. They'd shopped Butler for a year. There never was that great of a market for him. Your speculations and No Great Shakes's numerous hypotheticals can change that.

None of the things he referenced applied and if they did it would sway more towards Irving's value being depreciated. He was the one demanding a trade, not Butler.

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Ride what coattails? Who will be better than him on that team?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

He is riding the coattails of whom? He is viewed as their best player. He also wasn't interested riding James's coattails either from all accounts. He may be a fool for feeling that way but coattail riding doesn't appear to be part of his deal.

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Their general makeup. Second best team in the east last year and they won't be worse than 4 this year despite being led by a guy who hasn't done shit as the lead in his career.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

It's very close, I'd lean Kyrie over Jimmy.

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He's gonna ride the coattails of Boston's general makeup? This doesn't make any sense.

Also, the entire team in Boston is different this year than last.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

There's enough there to sustain the path they were on last year, which was a top 4 EC team. He's the best player on the team but he's walking into a good situation.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY