Selective prosecution is another way I guess, but you should know that. There was a big fight back in '93 between Iverson's group(all black), and another group(all white). Guess who was the only ones arrested? Im betting you dont really need to guess. Douglas Wilder, the white governor at the time, thought he was treated unfairly. Nice one sided story telling Coast. Do you by any chance host a morning radio show on the Score?

The funny part about all this? He was playing high school basketball at the time. But high school basketball has a bunch of innocent kids and the NBA has a bunch of thugs right?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

If your coach looked like this, you'd be saying Big Ten Tournament pretty quickly

I didn't tell a story, Favre Fan, I recited a fact and took issue with your statement that Iverson is an "upstanding citizen". I understand that there is a story behind it and that different people have different views of that story. I also understand that everyone who goes to prison has a story and believes they are innocent. He may have indeed have been innocent. I'm not disputing that and that's not for me to judge. That is irrelevant to the point I was making. What is undisputed is what I said...he beat up some kids and he went to prison. That makes him an ex-con, and an ex-con, by my definition, is not an "upstanding citizen".

By the way, the governor, Douglas Wilder, whom you mentioned, is not white. Not that it matters, but if you are so intent on getting the story straight, he is an African American.

Also, you made some insinuation about me and "thugs in the NBA". Have you seen me anywhere in this thread make a generalization about "thugs in the NBA"? No.

Fair enough, you didnt call them thugs. You said you were disgusted by them and they had attitude problems. So whatever the word for that is, its still ignorantly simplistic and painting with a very broad brush.



Are you disgusted with Dikembe Mutumbo? One of the most intelligent and well rounded philanthropists of our generation?

As for you not telling a story and merely reciting facts, well that is true...sort of. You said that Iverson went to prison for reportedly beating up kids because they were white. Thats omitting alot of very relevant, specific information, dont you think? It would be like saying the Jena kids beat up the white kids for simply being white. There are many complex details and extenuating circumstances surrounding that brawl that it seems you conveniently left out.


As for being an upstanding citizen... maybe I stretched the term a bit but he is much closer to being that then being the thug you portray him to be, and yes you have very much portrayed him as a thug in this thread. He has donated over $1,000,000 to help inner city kids and has spent many hours working with the NBA Cares program. By all accounts he has had a tumultuous past, but there are many positive qualities about him that often are overshadowed because everybody loves a negative story about a star.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Bo Ryan might have the scariest mean face in all of NCAA basketball.

In your zeal to make your point, you again missed mine. All I said was the guy went to prison and that does not make him an "upstanding citizen" in my book. I recognize there are details to the story. There are "many complex details and extenuating circumstances" surrounding most people that go to prison. Fine. That doesn't change the simple and indisputable fact the guy went to prison for assault. I'm not judging his innocence or guilt. He was pardoned by the Governor so his official record is now clean. Drug criminals and even international financial fugitives like Marc Rich are pardoned by governors and Presidents. That still does not make them upstanding citizens in my book. If your definition of upstanding citizens includes people who went to prison, then your definition is different than mine.

And when I said I was "disgusted" by NBA games, the context of my remarks were in the attitude they displayed on the court. And many players have lousy attitudes in the NBA...and the NFL and MLB also for that matter. At no time, have I talked in this thread about off-the-court behavior of any NBA player other than Iverson. And I only did that because of how you characterized him. You talk about broad brush generalizations, but it seems like you are the one who has a penchant for making them (everybody loves a negative story about a star.).

So its impossible for an ex con to become an upstanding citizen? I never said he was an upstanding citizen because he went to prison. I was saying that because he gives alot of his time and money to very worthwhile charitable causes, a quality which I find admirable. I am not going to automatically assume that every ex con has no chance of becoming an upstanding citizen. Isn't our prison system supposed to be about rehabilitation more than punishment?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

If you say so. Does a person who goes to prison for an assault qualify as a "rags to riches story and upstanding citizen" as you called him? Apparently he does in your world. That's your choice to define terms anyway you wish. Just don't assume everyone agrees with your definition.

Rehabilitation is a different issue. In theory, sure, people can be "rehabilitated" in prison. That's much more of an ideal than a reality though. But ok..using your argument...I disagree with you. Even a rehabilitated,now law-abiding citizen does not qualify as an "upstanding citizen" in my world. It does in yours. Ok we disagree on that definition. But remember this: It's hard, if not impossible, to outlive a conviction. If you think not, try finding a good job with a conviction -- ANY conviction -- on your record. Or commit a felony and then see how our laws prohibit you from ever voting again.

Rehabilitated? Well, Now let me see. You know, I don't have any idea what that means. I know what you think it means, sonny. To me it's just a made up word. A politician's word, so young fellas like yourself can wear a suit and a tie, and have a job. What do you really want to know? Am I sorry for what I did? There's not a day goes by I don't feel regret. Not because I'm in here, or because you think I should. I look back on the way I was then: a young, stupid kid who committed that terrible crime. I want to talk to him. I want to try and talk some sense to him, tell him the way things are. But I can't. That kid's long gone and this old man is all that's left. I got to live with that. Rehabilitated? It's just a bullshit word. So you go on and stamp your form, sonny, and stop wasting my time. Because to tell you the truth, I don't give a shit.

As an innocent bystander (and having read both your posts), I think you guys actually agree with each other.

College sports sucks

'Sheer passion' my ass, they're either playing for future money, or for the free ride they're currently getting

The NBA is great right now, a time that will be remembered in history, your loss

Not to change the direction of this thread, but I think the Tim Donaghy gave the NBA haters too much ammunition for their consipiricy theories. I hate it when people aruge that ALL NBA games are fixed.

Sure, for those who weren't convinced after Hue Hollins' phantom call on Pippen in '94, the Donahy fiasco brought to reality that yes, some but not ALL games are fixed.

I'm convinced more college games are fixed than pro games. But in college, it's the players doing the fixing, not the refs. Not many games when you consider there are 300 teams on the betting board playing 30 games each. But some. No question.

This statement is contradictory. In the NBA, money (for the most part) is guaranteed regardless if how good or bad you play. So that would give these players all the more incentive to play balls out in college to get that future GUARANTEED money. Sure there's perks in college, but not 7 figure salaries.

_________________

i guess you just torched him frank