Anyone have any defensive analytics that these two can be compared while at short?

They're claiming on Sports Talk Live that Russell is clearly better defensively, but that's not what I would think from just watching them.

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Addy is better, but it's close.

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The argument has always been Russel gets s better read/better alignment so all the plays look easy. The eye test tells you otherwise but Jim aedmonds, for example, always had a flair of making routine into not so routine looking.

Russell has better feet. That allows him to make the routine play and turn the double play more consistently.

Baez had to re-aquaint himself w/ the position if you recall. Remember those first few games in SF vs the Giants where he botched 2 easy ground balls which led to Q giving up a first inning bomb to Posey?

Baez has made big strides but I would say Russell is the more season SS.

Plus getting Russell's bat back is huge.

Just put Baez at second.

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If you isolate Baez's defensive stats at short as the full time starter, he is as good as they get. In fact, if you remove his first week of games back at short...since Aug 13, he only had one error playing essentially every day, and his range factor and defensive runs saved are phenomenal.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Yeah this isn't a debate.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Agreed. I don't even need stats.

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Addison doesnt appear to have the arm Baez does.

The arms aren't even close.

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This is why I say "watch the games"

So

2B Addy
SS Baez

Yes? Yes.

Good talk, Russ.

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Power is always in the hands of the masses of men. What oppresses the masses is their own ignorance, their own short-sighted selfishness.
- Henry George

It's a no brainer to everyone except Maddon

Yeah. That was an understatement on purpose.

I think you have to put Baez at SS.

Bernstein discussed this with Kasper today. Apparently Russell's Defensive Runs Saved at SS is way higher than Baez's (14 vs 1) but from the eye test, Baez is vastly better.

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Russell (in theory) is the more steady defender, where Baez has more "wow" factor and more range, that said, this year specifically, IMO Russell was not having a good year defensively.

Cumulative stat...

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I'll take Baez at SS.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=108235

Yeah, but they're actually pretty close in terms of opportunities.

The more I look, Russell really is crushing him in terms of stats. Make of that what you will.

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Again, look from August 13th through the current date. There really isn't anyone that played SS better than Baez over that stretch. And that is the only stretch of his major league career where he got to play one single position full time.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I think Russell is probably better over the long term but I have no problem rolling with Baez in the playoffs. He's a defensive playmaker which is a rare commodity. Put him in the premium position.

give me Russell at short all day. I'd rather use Baez as a defensive replacement, have Happ at second and play Almora every day in center.

This is not backed up by any stats. I just think Russell is better at everyday, routine plays at short. And he's better hitting, in my opinion.

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Ба́бушка гада́ла, да на́двое сказа́ла—то ли до́ждик, то ли снег, то ли бу́дет, то ли нет.

I put this together quickly on Fangraphs. I added some of the standard defensive metrics to the advanced analytics. Russel actually has the 2nd highest defensive runs saved in the majors this year...which is really impressive for how many innings he has played.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=0&type=c%2c4%2c5%2c6%2c26%2c27%2c28%2c-1%2c29%2c30%2c31%2c32%2c-1%2c36%2c37%2c38%2c39%2c40%2c43%2c21&season=2017&month=0&season1=2017&ind=0&team=17&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0

I'm sure people have written about this extensively, but I guess you could say there are three elements to defense:

1. Where you position yourself before the pitch (either by your own instincts or by a coach telling you where to be)
2. Where you go after the ball is put in play (i.e., range)
3. What you do once the ball gets into your zone (i.e., do you catch/tag/throw well?)

Baez would seem to be superior at #3. #1 and #2 are more difficult to quantify, and #1 is greatly affected by a team's analytics and coaching, though Russell and Baez are presumably coached/positioned similarly. You could argue that #1 is almost more important than #2 and #3 (no player's speed or skill is enough to overcome poor positioning).

Some people have suggested that defensive shifts should be limited or even eliminated, which I think is ridiculous. But if that ever happened, and players had to stay within a specified radius of their "true" position, it would certainly highlight the differences in ability between defenders.

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I'm a fan of Russell at SS just to left Javy drift and play match ups. If you have a lefty on the mound assume the team will be stacked with righties and throw him on Third base with Bryant in Left. Righty, keep him at second with Happ in CF.