Grant is a seriously underrated component on those first threepeat teams. He was a better all-around player than Rodman and that first run was better than the Rodman teams.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I'll be honest, I don't know enough about win shares in the NBA to talk about that.

I watched a ton of NBA basketball in the 90s, though I was young, and my impression was that Horace Grant after the Bulls was basically an above average starting power forward. In Orlando, he was 11.7 ppg and 8.5 ppg. I can name a lot of 90s PF that have pretty similar numbers including guys like Vin Baker and Derrick Coleman.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Your first sentence is pretty much my entire point in the thread. As of today, I think Jordan is the greatest ever, but people in Chicago get hysterical if someone even dare mentions someone else, as though the whole thing's not completely subjective to begin with.

I have to part ways with you on your Grant > Wade thought, though. You should walk that one back.

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Is Pippen better than anyone LeBron has ever played with?

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Grant was underrated and was a very good player on both ends. He helped trap when MJ and Scottie pressed. He could hit the J, and he was a great offensive rebounder. But he wasn't Dwyane Wade.

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Your thread title was "Lebron = GOAT".

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I'm certainly not saying Grant had a better career than Wade. But Wade was slightly past his prime when LeBron won in Miami. Grant was at his peak during the Bulls threepeat. And it was a very good peak. He's the forgotten guy on those great Bulls teams.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Rodman was better than Grant and the 2nd three peat teams were better. Won more games and were more dominant. They were also deeper. Williams (1 year) and Kukoc alone made them better and I'd take Rodman over Grant anyday.

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Had to get people's attention. But I even say in the original post that Lebron could be better when all is said and done... not right now.

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Almost everything you said there is wrong.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

Rick's argument is that Jordan's teams weren't more talented than LeBron's. Whether you agree or not, that's a reasonable opinion to hold.

And yeah, if you're gonna dig in on a guy for expressing a personal opinion you disagree with, it's fair to bring up your opinions as well.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Quotes that sum up, CFMB

Thank you.

There is a reason JORR has to keep saying that "Jordan dragged bums around".

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

I think the second 3-peat was better. Jordan was past his prime, but he was still the MVP. Also, Pippen was right in the middle of his prime, Rodman was still dominating with the things he did well, Longley wasn't bad, and Ron Harper was 2nd team defense. They also had a slew of role players who were perfect at what they did. Kerr, Kukoc, Wennington, Buechler,etc.

First three-peat might have been a little more explosive with a younger Jordan, but second 3-peat was a machine. Suffocating team defense and offensive efficiency in the triangle

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I have to disagree with you on the outside of Chicago thing jorr. You think Jordan is the 6th best player ever and worse than shaq. The general concensus nationally is that Jordan is still the best and LeBron is the only one with a case to be made over him. So you necessarily have to think he's overrated in AND out of Chicago.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Right. And I'll remember it the next time there's an argument on the greatness of Rodman and Pippen who are now deemed to be less than Love and Irving.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

That's the funny thing. Lebron did make a run at him. He was poised to make a strong case to do it. The problem is that Miami and the Cleveland years have too many blemishes on them to make a real claim.

It then goes to the "BUT REBOUNDS!" argument but that one is just dumb.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

Did you slip and fall as a child?

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But your opinions on them are as inconsistent as anyone's here. That was my point of bringing it up earlier. You think Buck williams was better than rodman because, in your words, offense matters more than defense and rebounding. Yet you're offended someone would then suggest Love is better? Doesn't add up.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

That's a consensus only among those under 35. I know many guys who think Magic and Oscar Robertson were both better than Jordan.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I wouldn't compare Love to Rodman. They're completely different types of players.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I'm sure you do. You rarely see anyone make such a case on a national platform regardless of age. You see old and young men alike say it's Jordan or LeBron.

Are you really gonna pretend you don't know it's a two horse race in the eyes of most national NBA observers regardless of age? I can drown this thread with links you won't be able to counter, but let's just agree on this very obvious point. I don't even think LeBron is close to the second best ever, but I'm also not gonna pretend that's not a pretty near consensus nationally.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

They are, because of the evolution of the game. But they play the same position on championship teams. You can't sit this comparison out just because it destroys your Buck > Rodman logic.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

It doesn't destroy my logic at all. I'm not comparing either Williams or Rodman to Love. Do you think LeBron has played with anyone better than Pippen or not?

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

It's not though. The guys who are commenting on the NBA generally act as if the league started with Bird and Magic.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8

I think Wade is very close. I'd probably give the edge to Pippen though. I'd take Wade/Bosh over any two teammates Jordan ever had.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

No they don't. Are you following Skip Bayless for your coverage?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I'd say Pippen was at his absolute best from 1992 - 1995. 1996 was cool but then the back stuff started to pop up.

Rodman was a beast but I might take Horace over him just because of what he brought offensively. He didn't bring much on offense but Rodman brought 0.

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Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Alright jorr, you don't want to accept reality here so let's do it. Find any links you can saying Oscar and Magic are the best ever. I'll do the same for Jordan and LeBron. I suppose after I win this handily your next argument will be old people don't know how to use the internet or something.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Are you really going to use argumentum ad populum? I doubt you can find a link to anyone who even saw Robertson play.

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Ecclesiastes 5:8