Bush blew the deal up after concluding that they'd restarted a uranium enrichment program. There had been intelligence reports regarding it and as far as comprehension goes you really are rather naive if you believe that actions in Libya or Iraq contributed to it. He tested nukes before Ghaddafi had been overthrown. You repeatedly make the erroneous claim that it was some sort of response but your timeline is way off.

He obviously had the materials all along as the bomb was tested a few years after the deal was blown up.

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Once again, you know not of what you speak.

The IAEA and their inspectors have made it clear that North Korea was onboard with the deal until the fall of 2002. This was 9 months after the Axis of Evil Speech and a month after the Iraq resolution. If you want, I can link the IAEA reports for you. Those same intelligence sources Bush used to justify scuttling the deal also claimed North Korea was enriching uranium at the time also said in January 2003 that North Korea had 2 bombs already (which was not true). However, the 1st test was not until the Fall of 2006, 4 years after the fall of the deal, which further indicates that North Korea was compliant as it took them that long to enrich enough weapons grade fissile material for the first test, which was low yield. If North Korea was cheating the deal, that test happens a few years earlier than it did instead of 4 years after the IAEA inspectors left the country after the collapse of the deal.

As for Iraq and Libya, I've already drawn a clear line in the chain of events showing that the US regime change policy led to the North Korean policy of not negotiating. Multiple cited US and international intelligence sources plus the regime's own statements support this conclusion. Prior to Gaddafi's fall, North Korea had indicated they would still be willing to negotiate for the right price. When that happened, any talk of dismantling the nuke program was removed from the negotiating table and the nuclear program was heavily accelerated.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

You are extremely willing to believe the word of a rogue dictator for some strange reason. You can choose to believe that he became more aggressive after Bush tore the deal up but I'm not. Of all the WMD proclamations that have been made regarding U.S. enemies North Korea is the one that I do choose to believe.

As far as other things you keep referencing regarding what I do or don't know show me where I was wrong regarding the Cold War or Palestine for that matter. My information was correct and the reason that I choose not to provide sources is because I'm tired of them being ignored or discredited. Its old hat now.

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It's not the word of a dictator, but rather the word of the analysts who have examined the situation. Need me to provide more sourcing material?

From a former CIA Analyst: http://world.time.com/2013/04/05/viewpo ... nightmare/

Once again, i have provided dates and facts regarding the timeline and North Korea's intentions regarding the nuclear program. You, in typical fashion, have brought nothing of substance to the thread.

Yeah, you were wrong in the Cold War thread and the Israel threads. In the Cold War thread you completely ignored Stalin's reneging of free elections in Poland, which was the starting point of the Cold War. In the Israel threads, whether it was actions of Mossad, or population figures in sepecific geographic areas, you were once again demonstrably wrong.

Really, you struggle with basic facts and have shown time and time again that you are unable to perform any amount of research to get even an elementary understanding of a topic before discussing. There is a reason you are time and time again discredited on these forums.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Dude since you have relentlessly attempted play the "credentials" game then let's play it. One of the reasons I've attempted to ignore your claims is because I've attempted to be respectful. You play the same games as Chas but the difference is that your sentences are more coherent. Doesn't necessarily mean your facts are correct.

The Cold War didn't start because Stalin reneged on Poland. They'd already conceded Poland to Stalin. You'd be laughed out of any academic discussion if you came in proclaiming that the issue of Free elections in Poland was the start of The Cold War. Why you're at it why not throw in The division of Germany too. Your argument would be much stronger if you did. How about the prevention of Soviet intervention in Japan? In an effort at seeming informed you come across as foolish.

The Cold War as most historians know it began in 1947 after Truman issued the Truman Doctrine. It was this particular declaration which stated that the U.S. would seek to prevent the spread of communism. It was made in response to actions in Greece and Turkey, not Poland. George Kennan wrote the document which became the blueprint for how America would conduct the Cold War. He is the person that came up with the Containment strategy. Containment strategy wasn't created because of Poland. It was created as a means of preventing the spread of Communism to areas in which it previously did not exist. There was concern over the possible spread of Communism to Centrsl and Western Europe. Its why the Marshall Plan was issued.
Poland didn't factor much into this either

In an effort at seeming informed you look foolish. You cherry picked an event and yelled "aha". It doesn't make you correct and if you had to discuss this issue on a level outside of this particular setting you'd be laughed at.

It's not to suggest that I'm somehow something special it's simply to suggest that your crackpot theories would face a greater degree of scrutiny.

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To illustrate the point about the uninformed way you go about this stuff.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... RVlYruRV6p

No reference to Poland and also what Historians consider to be the start of the Cold War.

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Ogie this buds for you. You are truly a mountain of misinformation. Cold War started because Stalin reneged on free elections. That was your rather fallacious claim.

You demonstrated on this and other issues that you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

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Since you quoted History.com, I'll pull up a source from them as we..

http://www.history.com/topics/world-war ... conference

From my quoted source:

"Yalta became controversial after Soviet-American wartime cooperation degenerated into the cold war. Stalin broke his promise of free elections in Eastern Europe and installed governments dominated by the Soviet Union. Then American critics charged that Roosevelt, who died two months after the conference, had “sold out” to the Soviets at Yalta."
-------

Now let's build off that.

Once again, it was at Yalta that free elections were promised in Poland. The Soviets not only turned Poland and other Eastern European nations into satellite states, but then they moved to interfere in elections in Greece and Italy. These were the events which triggered the Cold War. The US is not blameless, but there is no arguing that Stalin flat out violated the agreements made at Yalta.

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

Of course he violated the agreements but Roosevelt fully expected that. It doesn't mean that it caused the Cold War.

The Cold War and the policies behind them were related to what happened in Greece and Turkey. Those were the triggers. They'd already conceded Poland and they also on some level were willing to sacrifice Poland.


The Cold War was started as a result of what we believed to be Soviet intentions.


They mistakenly believed that Stalin was interested in worldwide Communist conquest. He wasn't. He was primarily interested in securing Eastern Europe.

The Cold War had nothing to do with Poland as much as it had to do with the misconception that Stalin was attempting to export communism.

They vowed to fight Communists not the Soviets. As a result we became entangled in a series of wars and proxy wars which had little to do with the Soviets.China Korea and Vietnam weren't related to Stalin at all.

Stalin was concerned with providing security for eastern Europe. He wasn't all that concerned with exporting Communism.

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BUMP

I actually noticed a trend awhile ago when it comes to you. Your lack of credibility and message board integrity. There is an oxymoron if ever there was one. I actually didn't criticize U.S. actions during this thread Ogie was the person bashing the United States yet you chose to play another one of your gotcha games in order to take a swipe at me.. I didn't call you on it because I wanted to see if someone else would.


You lack credibility because you consistently bring inherent biases to discussions each and every time. Try and debate issues and not the person all time.

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Huh?

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

No ambiguity here. You chimed in as usual and proceeded to misrepresent what I said. It's normal actually.

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I'm just curious here. what is the legal penalty for lightly squeezing a buttock?

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

She should be proud.

The President thought she was cute enough to give a nice pat.

It was a compliment.

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Bush is basically dead now. What does she gain for BRAVELY coming forward with this story of some meaningless groping 25 years ago?

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Wrong Bush

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“When I walked in this morning, and saw the flag was at half mast, I thought 'alright another bureaucrat ate it.'" - Ron Swanson

It's a free for all now. You get your name in the papers for a cycle or two and then we all move on. If you were any man in a position of power over the last 40 years, you better have a PR staff on speed dial. No one is safe.

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If there's rape and/or sexual assault involved, I am all in favor of anyone coming forward with shit like that.

I don't have time to care about someone brushing up against an ass or sideboob years ago. Who gives a shit about stuff like that? It's insulting to actual victims.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I've noticed another pattern with you. You just say the generic "misrepresented my thoughts" without ever actually saying how I misrepresented it.

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!

/\ Right out of the Boliermaker Rick playbook

Yep

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!