These guys really are loading up at the batrack in order to admit they were wrong about this stuff. To think that if you listen to MANY on here you'd think that this sort of denial was relegated to a small group of people that post here.

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I'll bump the DB thread soon. To much unwarranted love for a guy whose best skills is dribbling between his legs.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

LBJ isnt top 3. #9 seeds dont get to have MVP candidates. Its a law

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

"#9 seed"

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

http://www.espn.com/nba/standings

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

November, 17 2017.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I didn't think it was necessary to point out what day it is. I figured we both knew it already.

You are aware the discussion is about MVPs through the current season so far, yeah?

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

And Boston's losses this season came with Irving playing.

He was whining about the George trade catching him off guard though. Kind of impossible to pretend he was waiting for a better player when no one had the slightest idea Irving was available.

The Celtics had the best record in the conference last year without Kyrie. They won games this season without him. There's some stats that suggest that Horford has been more valuable to the team this year. You seem to be in quite a rush to declare him a superstar and the trade a clear win for Boston when his number most definitely aren't superstar level and the trade is not any kind of win if they don't do any better in the playoffs.

If you want to say Irving's doing the little things or making the important things for Boston, fine, but you don't get to then wave away the things Butler is doing for the Wolves (including crunch time buckets, as FavreFan explained to you a few days ago) and myopically focus on the stats to criticize him.

I'm glad all it takes is one good draft pick for a front office to be regarded as brilliant talent evaluators for life evidently.

Who cares. Freak LBJ Harden will remain top 5 for the whole year. No surprises. LBJ isn't missing the playoffs.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Things like Garpax drafting Markennen if he turns out good just prove my thesis that there's very little skill involved in drafting. Thanks, Garpax!

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

The Boston as best team argument is rather weak since there are only 4 players from last year's team that are still on the roster. This is a team that has undergone a complete makeover. 2nd is the fact that they are missing their 2nd best player.

Irving will be an All star and a 1st or 2nd team All NBA. Butler won't. Butler also isn't the best guy on his own team Irving is.

This argument is done unless Irving becomes injured.

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They have the same coach who's was regarded as one of the best in the NBA, the best guy in the draft, and Horford, who the numbers say has in face been more valuable than Kyrie so far this season. Trying to frame this as some kind of carry job is disingenuous rubbish, particularly given the weak numbers Irving is averaging so far.

Week numbers yet somehow he is in the MVP race. He is avg 20 per game and it's obvious where the Ball will be at the end of the game. He also is on his way to being 1st or 2nd team All NBA.

Will Jimmy Butler be All NBA? I will hangup and listen for my Answer.


Here is how weak your argument happens to be. Horford has missed more games than Irving and yet the team has won each and every one of them.

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I posted the stats that indicate the Celtics play far better on both ends of the court with Horford in the game than they do with Kyrie. This is also borne out by advanced stats like RPM, which likewise have Horford ahead of Irving. The only reason we were discussing team records at all is because you latched onto the Celtics' team success since there's no reason to celebrate Irving on the basis of individual numbers.

Irving is nowhere near close to being "on his way" to first team all NBA. Pretending that's a realistic possibility given how he's played so far is laughable. His numbers are even worse than last year, when didn't even make third team.

You were in favor of mentioning records until you weren't. You'd be hard pressed to find 2% of the people associated with the NBA who believe Al Horford is more valuable than Kyrie Irving. You aren't making much sense.

The They play better when he is in the game argument is the same one they used when he was in Cleveland. How is that working for Cleveland?


Again will or won't Butler be All NBA? Irving will be unless he is hurt. Butler won't.

Boston has won 14 straight with Irving as the best player yet you are arguing what exactly?


He is the best player on the team with the best record. That will automatically place in on at least All NBA second team.

He is shooting 43%. that isn't atrocious by the way. He is in the running currently for MVP yet he is nowhere near 1st team MVP. Again you aren't making sense.

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The guy that can't beat out Grant (though he was well on his way prior to injury) dropped 22 in 26 minutes tonight.

This Minnesota trade is about to blow up in Thibodeau's face. No doubt about it.

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No the only reason I brought up records is because you're making a big to-do about Boston's record and downplaying Irving's individual stats while doing the exact opposite for Butler.
It's hilarious how you accuse me of not making much sense and write sentences like this. The Cavs indisputably played far worse last season when Irving was on and Lebron was off in the playoffs. I also don't know why you're celebrating Cleveland's struggles when it's not like they're unprecedented and it's not like they're especially relevant to the playoffs at this point. After all, Boston still finished with a better record last year too, back when the Cavs retained the services of Kyrie.
I think it's far too early in the season to make any such declarations, as opposed to you declaring winners and losers of trades, MVP votes, etc. as you seem to enjoy doing. I definitely don't think it's out of the realm of possibility, especially if Minnesota keeps winning and maintains a top 3 spot in the West. As I've told you before, many Minnesota fans think Butler is the biggest reason for their improvement this year, and that's even with a poor shooting start.

He's scoring 20 points a game. Those are not MVP numbers. Curry and Harden trounce him for first team guard honors based on how this part of the season has transpired and it's not even close really.

Is this just like when McDermott or Mirotic would have one good game and everyone would declare them well on their way to becoming the next Paul Pierce or Dirk Nowitzki?

It's interesting how Butler is viewed by you as a supreme difference maker yet Irving isn't. Boston's record this year trounces what they did last year this far. They are missing an All Star and only have 2 guys that played significant minutes for them last year.

The single biggest reason is Irving. You stated that it would be a loss for Boston and you've already been proven wrong.

You're trying to play the long game because frankly it's the only game you have to play. Your only hope is further injury.

Other than that you don't stand a chance of being proven right.

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I've never once denied the possibility of Irving as a difference maker. You however have downplayed it repeatedly in the case of Butler to focus on how his individual stats have gone down this season, thereby proving he was overrated last year, yet start copping pleas when Irving is held to the same standard of individual numbers. It's' just like I said several responses ago: If you want to say Irving's doing the little things or making the important plays for Boston, fine, but you don't get to then wave away the things Butler is doing for the Wolves (including crunch time buckets, as FavreFan explained to you a few days ago) and myopically focus on the individual stats alone to criticize him.

Also if we're comparing records from last year to this year, I believe you'll see that Minnesota record this year trounces what they did last year even more than Boston has.

If Jimmy Butler was generally regarded as a top 10 player as he was on here and fails to make either an All Star game or All NBA doesn't it validate the point that he is overrated?

He was a good player on a crappy team in a weak league. He isn't a great player and this year is demonstrating it. He has helped improve Minnesota's team but they were a 31 team win. He hasn't made them a contender and I think they will finish in the 6th slot in the West. They have played a pretty favorable schedule thus far.


The difference between Irving and Butler is that Irving is universally regarded as the best player on his team. Butler isn't. He is a supplemental piece. He won't make the All Star team. His offense is being overstated by you. There are too many errors in Farve Fan's analysis. His eye test needs a new lense. That's evident given his most recent evaluations.

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He made third team all-NBA last year already. How would this year automatically undermine last year?
The Wolves' strength of schedule so far is bang average, neither favorable or unfavorable. They're currently the third seed in the West and they've improved more this year compared to last year than Boston has with Irving.

If we're talking about what we'll think will happen rather than what has happened, someone can just as easily suggest that Boston still most definitely won't actually challenge for the title so Irving's early regular season numbers are irrelevant anyway.
No, it's not the case at all that Irving is universally regarded as the best player on the Celtics.

Charles Barkley agrees.

https://clutchpoints.com/celtics-news-c ... rving-mvp/

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Yeah if there's one guy known for sober-minded, insightful, and definitely not reactionary analysis of the NBA, it's Charles Barkley!

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I'm going to bounce from the spot for awhile but I will be back at some point to argue with you about this hoops stuff again. Playoffs have been great this season. See ya up the road.

I'm out.

.

77 points in his last 2 games on 26 for 34 shooting.

I'd say he is on his way to first team All NBA status. I'd don't believe that too many would laugh at the assertion either.

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Fire Hoiberg and sign Fizdale

He'd only get it because John wall is injured. Irving also averages as many assists as his starting power forward. Not exactly earth shattering.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

John Wall has never made an All NBA second team, and he's the guy in Kyrie's way for a first team spot? Your "Wall is great but Kyrie is not" take is truly bizarre.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Best PG in the league.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY