He wasn’t decidedly better at the time. It’s embarrassing this needs to keep being explained to you.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

You presume to speak for all NBA fans? You?

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We can dispute that. I'm not because the answer was clear at the time. It's murder now. Same with Kyrie and Cousins.

How about the 50 win Wolves? You still think that's going to happen.

I'm willing to admit that I was wrong about them. Are you?

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Not yet, no. I still think the Wolves are good. We'll see what happens over the next few months.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I didn't need to speak for them. I linked you to their own words.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

You sure?

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2017/12/8 ... r-rankings

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Sample size.

You know, the reason you cite Carmelo as better over Butler. If you're going to use sample size, you have to always use sample size.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Nah this will be the case going forward. I prefer to get ahead of the story. Each of the guys that I cited have been better for at least the past year.

As far as sample size goes you never use that in your assessments. You didn't do it with Anthony nor Josh Smith/ Taj.

You also didn't do it when you thought Butler was better. You had him as a Hall of fame candidate after 1-2 good seasons in the league. WYC?

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Ah, you bring up Taj Gibson. CLEARLY the better NBA player.

Yesterday you accused me of thinking Jimmy Butler would be out of the league a few years ago. Now you accuse me of saying I had him as a Hall of Famer after 1-2 years. Do you realize how much stuff you make up?

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Nah I remember you to be a Butler detractor. You changed your beat (and your screen name) "master of the obvious" style the first year he became good.

Josh Smith was also better at the time I said that he was. Check his numbers with Houston and contrast them with Taj's from that season. Also a better player throughout his career too.

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My screenname is the same. It became abbreviated. All the posts are still under this account, my only account. Don't try to make up excuses as to why you can't find it.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I never thought Butler would be out of the league in a few years but I was for sure wrong on him early. Even after he started flashing a bit I still thought he was just Tony Allen. Asinine thought.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Butler greatly exceeded his expectations but I think he’s still a touch overrated.

I liked him early but I'd be lying if I thought he would become the player he has become. He is a good player. I don't believe he is a great player. Definitely not a guy you build around. He never realized that just because you are a team's best player it doesn't mean that you are a franchise player. He attempted to use leverage that he didn't necessarily have and it adversely effected the team. He has admitted as much since he was traded. Admitted that it came down to him or Hoiberg and they chose Hoiberg.

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Source?

What he said was that it was clear him and Hoiberg had contrasting styles/philosophies, and that the team had to choose between the two, and that the team rightfully chose the coach over the player. That’s exactly what I want my star player to say even if it’s clearly bullshit.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

If he gives them an ultimatum then that's trying to use leverage.

http://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/ ... -thibodeau

Bobby Portis isn't going to make that sort of ultimatum.

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Your post and link don’t back up your claim. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you worded it wrong in the bolded part.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

He was a Caller Bob. So happy he is gone.

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Reality is your friend, not your enemy. -- Seacrest

What part was I wrong about? Let's not be vague either.

The part about effecting the team is my opinion. I never meant that it was Butler's.

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Correctomundo

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Yep.

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Thibodeau clearly provided Dunn with the discipline he needed during his rookie season, just like he did with Butler and others. Thibodeau wouldn't have drafted Dunn if he sucked.

Care to discuss Butler in the Butler thread?

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

So much discipline that most people in the league thought the kid may be a bust.

Butler is currently doing well. I won't take that away from him. However its the same thing that we witnessed with the Bulls. He plays well against shitty teams with B rate players.

He comes up small against elite players. I don't put much stock in numbers that are piled up against shitty teams. You do. That is why your observations are often meaningless.

Let's see what happens this month.

You will have your customary excuses ready though. You always do. Just like "instilling discipline". Just the latest one. If Hoiberg is such a terrible coach then he'd already have undone that.

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Speaking of meaningless observations, it was you who thought the kid may be a bust. Who else?

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

That is where Thibs factored in. Should never have trusted his rundown. I loved Dunn before i hated him. Do you want me to bump that?


viewtopic.php?f=91&t=101052&p=2592234&hilit=dunn+real#p2592234

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You were for it before you were against it?

That doomed John Kerry.

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Let the record show.

viewtopic.php?f=91&t=101052&p=2507154&hilit=dunn+summer#p2507154

There were a few instances during last season where i posted that he "looked like a flop" or "looked like a bust".

Dunn is probably the one thing that i didn't attribute to Thibs. He could defend. That was obvious but offensively he looked a mess. Didn't look like he had anything.

Completely different player than the guy that played in the Summer league. Obvious now what the source of the problem happened to be.

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I don't get what you are trying to say. That Thibodeau is tough on rookies? We know that.

But I think that helps the player become a better NBA player. You think it causes a regression.

I'm just happy Hoiberg won't be the coach here once Dunn becomes one of the Top 10 PG in the league.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Don't try and tie Thibs to this kid's development. That's weak even by your standards. If he continued to flop you'd be hailing Thibs (while conversely bashing) GarPax's ability to evaluate talent.

I don't care how well Butler is playing. That's with him actually looking like an All Star too.

That trade is going to haunt the Wolves for years to come. Have to see what Lavine looks like but if he is close to the high scoring guy he was prior to the trade then its already a slam dunk.

If you're a Wolves fan (you're not) it has to be concerning. This dude sold the franchise out in order to make the playoffs.

If he'd stood pat they may have still made the playoffs this year and they'd have been ready to rock for real next year. As it stands now they will be condemned to basketball hell for the foreseeable future.

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Again, I've liked Dunn the entire time and haven't flipped back and forth like you have. So my consistency has shown that I would not have done what you did.

Dunn has had more time under Thibodeau than he has Hoiberg. Thibodeau is recognized around the league as a far better coach than Hoiberg. Thibodeau's rookies never get off to a strong start. History shows that Thibodeau is great at coaching guards and rookies that have poor debuts under him can eventually become good (or great) NBA players.

You have absolutely no pulse reading on the Timberwolves.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.