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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:39 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
GoldenJet wrote:
As Mac talked about yesterday, there's only 14-16 plum jobs in sports radio in Chicago...that's if you include evenings. It's a tough racket. You gotta have thick skin. On social media, you're going to draw in the anonymous fringe that love to toss around the n-word and plenty of other garbage. Filter that shit out, it's not reality, it's trolling. Goff got caught up more with feeding the trolls than rising above it and concentrating on the main objective...sports entertainment.

Jonathan Hood should be pissed for being called a minstrel show.

Who is this LA dude?



Oh yeah, I used to be a radio host. It's a tough racket.

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Pretty much. If you don't have thick skin, don't put yourself in the public eye. Don't be in the media, or try to be a personality or politician. Hell, stay off social media and forums.

And it's tough to make it in Chicago on sports radio. There's a shit ton of competition for very few jobs and even fewer pay worth a shit.

I wouldn't do it if I could. There's no money in it.

Regarding Steven A Smith...there's no way he could hold an audience on a sports radio station...certainly not for 4-5 hours a day, every day.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:46 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:47 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:57 am 
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The puzzling thing is why they chose McKnight over someone like Herron. The majority of posters here have a positive impression of Herron and the opposite of McKnight. So either management knows more than we do, Bernstein refused to work with Herron, or Herron turned them down.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:59 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
While Goff isn't the best example given his own inability to program a show the general theme of the author has a lot of merit. I'm not a sports radio historian but this is the best that I know.

Here is the history of black men in Chicago sports radio that got roles during the day. You'll notice two themes. Not many. Second chances very hard to come by.

Dan Jiggetts: Helped establish The Score. Had a very successful show. Was seemingly pushed out by Mike North and wouldn't work there again. He went on to a moderately successful career though outside of sports radio, and had a failed show on Comcast Sportsnet with Mike North.
Jonathon Hood: Got one shot with a co-host that supposedly tried to torpedo the show. That show didn't work at all and he never got a second chance at the Score. He left for ESPN and has been getting some night and weekend hosting with no shot at a daytime show.
Laurence Holmes: A Score lifer who got his one chance with a HOF Bear player who wasn't going to ever be good at radio who seemingly got reviews of being one of the worst hosts in Score history. Since then it has been a running joke that he gets passed over and makes a statement how he wants his flexibility.
Jason Goff: Had to leave to Atlanta in a situation in hindsight he was destined to fail at. Got fired from there for mentioning salsa on the air. Looked to be out of radio and it took a ton of work to even let the Score hire him back since he was flagged as being fired from the other station. He got the drive time job with Dan Bernstein and got to replace Terry Boers. The show didn't work, which was a lot of his fault. Dan Bernstein gets another chance with a guy who literally won a radio reality show to get into the industry while Jason Goff is offered the chance to do the shifts that Spiegel won't take.

Meanwhile, ESPN still employs Jurko and Carmen who do terrible in the ratings, let a whole bunch of other shows run for a long time that were ratings death too after Mac left. WSCR gave Spiegel 4 partners and still will seemingly be putting him on the air with a decent chance he may one day settle back into a show. Bernstein gets partner #3, though obviously he has a track record there that is worth that. North was given just about every chance to fail and only left because he wasn't going to be paid what he thought he deserved.

So, the ultimate point is that if you are a black man looking to get into Chicago sports radio the prospects of success are really low then I think that's true. From what I can tell, ESPN has never had it, and WSCR has had 1 success story, with 3 short stints of failure with no second chances.



Brick is right. I'd add the fact that McNeil pissed a bitch when Jiggetts was essentially forced upon him post North.

That partnership was dissolved after McNeil let it be known that he wouldn't work with Jiggetts.


You are glossing over the 15 year run Jiggets had as co host of the seminal show for all current sports talk radio, followed by an on air run of a decade or so as a sports anchor. You also gloss over the role his health problems played in his scaling back on work. The guy was able to will a position in Chicago media to his child. That's white privilege level stuff there.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:06 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
How many success stories are their in Chicago sports talk radio as a whole? Less than 10 people total perhaps? There was maybe a decade golden era before the business started to slow due to the Internet. And this is evidence of a conspiracy to keep black men off the air?
A lot more than 10 depending on what you consider to be a success.

If you want, we can make a list of the people who got more than 2 years on a show that was on from 6am to 6pm. I believe there is one person, and that was a guy who literally helped establish The Score. Unless I'm missing someone, ESPN has never had a black man on daytime programming. As I said though, I'm not a radio historian.

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
As your heroes on woke radio would say "small sample size".
It's not really a small sample size. Chicago sports radio is nearly 30 years old. There is only one true success story, and even he has been absent from sports radio for longer than I've been listening.

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Jiggetts had success, and then was given chance after chance. Monsters and Money in the morning ring a bell?
What radio station was that on? Also, how long did it last?

As I've said though. Consider Jiggetts a success. I think that's fair. The problem is when you try and come up with who was the second most successful.


It hasn't been 30 years though. It's been 25 for the Score and maybe 20 for MVP? And how many open spots for local talent based on your metrics? MVP was largely national programs in the early years, and it has had a national morning show for every year. So you are fighting for at most 5 shifts at two stations over two decades tops. As for retreads look to Norm Van Lier who had afternoon drive on MVP then the morning show on the Score.

Even though they do not fit your metrics Lawrence has been on forever, and so has Jonathon Hood. Tommy Williams had a long run. Outside of the very narrow field of Chicago sports radio, there seems to be quite a few black voices in the mainstream sports and entertainment media. Perhaps they have better sources than the people who told Jason that the NFL players were going to boycott the first week of the NFL last year, that Gar Foreman was going to be fired, of that Dwayne Wade was signing with the Bulls in 2010 or any of the other breaking news reports this supposed insider had that proved to not be true.

Goff was given two years plus during shifts that fit your metrics, and he allowed echo chamber laziness to be his voice. The results were predictable.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:08 am 
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What about JUAN? Dude never even had a chance!

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:11 am 
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I know it's very difficult for the minimum wage class of producers to digest but producer does not equal on air host, even if you are good at being a producer.

These guys all get pissed when they see the Illinois School for Broadcasting isn't what it is purported to be. Mully and Hanley are real college graduates. Same with Bernstein and Mc Dick. Same with McNeil and Parkins. Same with Lawrence. Less was hatched fully grown from the head George Halas with a microphone in hand, so I don't know about him.

Theo is considered by some to be a great general manager but he will never play for the Cubs. There is something innate about the guys who have success behind the microphone. I can't describe it or reproduce it and each of them attacks the subject differently.

How many times have we heard the loser's lament from producers about Murph. Incessant bitching. Murph pulled great ratings at every point and every time slot in his career at the Score. He took mornings, which had never been successful, and suddenly they got ratings.

Producers! Losers from start to finish.

I'm not even dismissing some of his underlying argument. There has NEVER been a Latino on air host at the station and we have a city that is trending towards Latino majority. However, race is a vehicle in his piece for the real argument we have read over and over again at this site: producers deserve air shifts if they work long enough at the station.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:12 am 
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https://www.facebook.com/unrestrictedfr ... 3056453056


Read the comment from Scott Kier, boom! Mic drop.....

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:14 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
It hasn't been 30 years though. It's been 25 for the Score and maybe 20 for MVP? And how many open spots for local talent based on your metrics? MVP was largely national programs in the early years, and it has had a national morning show for every year. So you are fighting for at most 5 shifts at two stations over two decades tops. As for retreads look to Norm Van Lier who had afternoon drive on MVP then the morning show on the Score.
I don't know much about those two stints for Van Lier. Can you give me the number of years for each and around when they happened?

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Even though they do not fit your metrics Lawrence has been on forever, and so has Jonathon Hood. Tommy Williams had a long run. Outside of the very narrow field of Chicago sports radio, there seems to be quite a few black voices in the mainstream sports and entertainment media. Perhaps they have better sources than the people who told Jason that the NFL players were going to boycott the first week of the NFL last year, that Gar Foreman was going to be fired, of that Dwayne Wade was signing with the Bulls in 2010 or any of the other breaking news reports this supposed insider had that proved to not be true.
That changes nothing about my post. Some evening, weekend, and overnight shifts is a huge list. Even Julie DiCaro is getting those now. I doubt anyone who is trying to break into sports radio is hoping they have the career of Tommy Williams.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:15 am 
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None of Rick's examples have any specific examples showing race as a factor in the decision. There is an explanation for all of them. And the data Rick is trying to use has no merit. He just picked random people. You could just as easily do that to support any number of angles. I'm not one (to be clear, I'm not speaking on their behalf!), but if I were a minority or a woman in that profession, it would piss me off that people so easily equate stuff like this to race. It diminishes what they earned on their own and continue to do well.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:17 am 
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I think Norm Van Lier was in mornings with Doug around 1999 when the Score was on 1160. It would have been a casualty of the North realignment that gave us Boers and Bernstein.

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Last edited by Curious Hair on Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:17 am 
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It's kind of funny because Goff has had three chances already.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:17 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:19 am 
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DAC wrote:
That's such a bunch of bullshit. So is it's the Score's obligation to keep the B&G show even though the show was continuing to sink in the ratings?


I think this is exactly what the Goff fans think: that the Score should have kept the show intact as sort of a moral loss leader. Chase ratings everywhere else if you have to, but having Jason Goff at all is more important than winning with him. And that argument could be a persuasive one -- for a midday show.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:20 am 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
The puzzling thing is why they chose McKnight over someone like Herron. The majority of posters here have a positive impression of Herron and the opposite of McKnight. So either management knows more than we do, Bernstein refused to work with Herron, or Herron turned them down.

McKnight was chosen as he was Jimmy's guy at The Game. It's really as simple as that.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:21 am 
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Read the comment from Scott Kier, boom! Mic drop.....


yeah, he kinda put it all out there. very well done.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:22 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
None of Rick's examples have any specific examples showing race as a factor in the decision. There is an explanation for all of them. And the data Rick is trying to use has no merit. He just picked random people. You could just as easily do that to support any number of angles. I'm not one (to be clear, I'm not speaking on their behalf!), but if I were a minority or a woman in that profession, it would piss me off that people so easily equate stuff like this to race. It diminishes what they earned on their own and continue to do well.
I didn't pick random people. Outside of Norm Van Lier, who I don't know much about in terms of his radio career, that was a complete list of black people who got a chance to be on during the daytime on Chicago sports radio.

I don't understand the second part of your post. I'm not saying they got where they were because of race.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:23 am 
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On air host is an art. Producer is a science (such as it were)

That should be the lesson on day 1 of the Illinois School for Broadcasting's first day so that the class understood the situation.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:25 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's kind of funny because Goff has had three chances already.
What was his third chance?

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:27 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's kind of funny because Goff has had three chances already.
What was his third chance?



Handed afternoon drive in a major market after being bounced out of Atlanta.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:28 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
It hasn't been 30 years though. It's been 25 for the Score and maybe 20 for MVP? And how many open spots for local talent based on your metrics? MVP was largely national programs in the early years, and it has had a national morning show for every year. So you are fighting for at most 5 shifts at two stations over two decades tops. As for retreads look to Norm Van Lier who had afternoon drive on MVP then the morning show on the Score.
I don't know much about those two stints for Van Lier. Can you give me the number of years for each and around when they happened?

WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Even though they do not fit your metrics Lawrence has been on forever, and so has Jonathon Hood. Tommy Williams had a long run. Outside of the very narrow field of Chicago sports radio, there seems to be quite a few black voices in the mainstream sports and entertainment media. Perhaps they have better sources than the people who told Jason that the NFL players were going to boycott the first week of the NFL last year, that Gar Foreman was going to be fired, of that Dwayne Wade was signing with the Bulls in 2010 or any of the other breaking news reports this supposed insider had that proved to not be true.
That changes nothing about my post. Some evening, weekend, and overnight shifts is a huge list. Even Julie DiCaro is getting those now. I doubt anyone who is trying to break into sports radio is hoping they have the career of Tommy Williams.


Tommy Williams didn't have a good enough career for you because...? You are just making up metrics. Only 6-6 counts! Jiggetts is an outlier. Most guys do not make it in Chicago sports radio.

If a black man feels like he can't make it in sports radio here then they can become a comedian, TV host or president of the country instead.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:29 am 
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Jiggs probably on mount rushmore of chi sports talk. Hell he IS the mount rushmore of chi sports radio talk.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:30 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's kind of funny because Goff has had three chances already.
What was his third chance?



Handed afternoon drive in a major market after being bounced out of Atlanta.


He was handed a midday spot and wasn't that his second chance?

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:30 am 
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Let's be honest, the failure rate of radio hosts is as high as the failure rate of restaurants. It's a very small % of them who stick around and make it. Just look at the entire team of producers over the last 10-15 years, they all were there trying to get into a big slot.

They are all gone or still stuck answering the phones or manning the sound board.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:31 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's kind of funny because Goff has had three chances already.
What was his third chance?



Handed afternoon drive in a major market after being bounced out of Atlanta.
That was his second chance.

Also, it should be pointed out that in Atlanta he was doing night shifts similar to Holmes right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:32 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's kind of funny because Goff has had three chances already.
What was his third chance?



Handed afternoon drive in a major market after being bounced out of Atlanta.


He was handed a midday spot and wasn't that his second chance?


He was also handed the last spot he had in afternoon drive. However you slice it, he hasn't lacked for chances.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:33 am 
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wait, Speigs and Goff had a show right? or am I having another aneurysm?

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:33 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Tommy Williams didn't have a good enough career for you because...? You are just making up metrics. Only 6-6 counts! Jiggetts is an outlier. Most guys do not make it in Chicago sports radio.

If a black man feels like he can't make it in sports radio here then they can become a comedian, TV host or president of the country instead.
Every post about ratings and all the moves indicated that 6-6 matters much more than anything else in sports radio. I mean, people are calling it a demotion because Bernstein went to middays! Can you imagine what they would call it if he was moved to 6-10?

Your second paragraph is just dumb.

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 Post subject: Re: Elegy for a Goff
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:35 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
It's kind of funny because Goff has had three chances already.
What was his third chance?



Handed afternoon drive in a major market after being bounced out of Atlanta.


He was handed a midday spot and wasn't that his second chance?


He was also handed the last spot he had in afternoon drive. However you slice it, he hasn't lacked for chances.

Dan Bernstein getting moved to middays from the afternoon = demotion.
Jason Goff getting moved to afternoons from middays = ???.

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