I'm talking 06-07.

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T-Mac might have still been dominant. Maybe his last year of being good. 2007 was this weird period where the 2003 class and the guys after them were on the way to taking over the league but the guys from the late 90s were still not done yet. This reflects in the winners from that period (TD in 2007, KG/PP and Kobe in 2008-2010), before LBJ and the new crew finally took over in 2011. I know Dirk won in 2011 but the new crew was ascendent at that time.

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Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
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The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Actually, it was Dirk. I was looking at box plus-minus.

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This thread took place following the 06-07 season. Dirk was first in WS/48. LeBron was 8th. Paul was 19th.

Kobe wasn’t in the top 20

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Kobe was hugely over rated.

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Not really. I’ve always been a Duncan guy but Kobe was obviously one of the best players of that generation.

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I love you more than words can tell
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Duncan is a top 5 all time player..Kobe ain't. Lbj is.

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Once Shaq left Kobe spent like five years padding his stats. He put up insane numbers (35 per game one year I think, the 81 point game, etc) during that stretch but was a non factor in terms of contending.

_________________
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Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

You can’t put the sole blame on him for that. When your 2nd and 3rd best players are Kwame Brown and Smush Parker it’s hard to contend.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Kobe was an unreal scorer. Probably the best pure scorer I've seen. He was a better perimeter shooter than Jordan.
A much better 3-point shooter.

Not as all-around good.

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He couldn't get out of the first round til they got Gasol.

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Nonsense

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Who have you seen that is a better pure score than Kobe, other than presumably Jordan? Name one.

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You couldn't play aggressive D in Kobe era, jordan would have averaged 40.

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I’m sure old guys could make good cases for Wilt and Bird and others.

I think a case could be made for Durant. If he was more selfish stat wise he could be putting up insane numbers.

_________________
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Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

Steph Curry and Harden are better scorers than Kobe, curry takes fewer shots too.

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This argument is so stale. No one can ever be compared to Jordan in any way because of the era. Ok. MJ can't be discussed in any rational conversation.

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No, they aren't. Not to go all LTG, but did you actually watch Kobe play or just look at his stats?

No one mentioned can score in the number of ways Kobe could.

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Durant

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I've watched Kobe for years, selfish chucker..LBJ has been a better scorer and player since he was 21years old. I don't think you've seen MJ play before the Wizards.

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Actually having seen a guy play does help when you are holding a discussion which requires you to see them play you know.

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Hand checking seemed to be a big thing tho. As a defender it made it easier to keep tabs on your guy. You're more exposed as a defender when you can't hand check.

_________________
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Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

We aren't talking about all-around play. We are talking scoring, specifically.

I watched Jordan's whole career and am his biggest fan. The difference is I can discuss him objectively.

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I know. That's why I said it.

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Yeah, I get that, but it's just become the go-to response any time anyone dares compare a player to Jordan or says there are facets of their game that were better. There are a lot of other variables that favored Jordan, too. Today's game where every team spaces the floor and has five shooters may have impacted his team success, too. There are a lot of different variables that we can't account for, but that one is ALWAYS mentioned.

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Jordan was a decidely better scorer than Kobe Bryant.

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Kobe would have shot over 50% too if his main nemesis was Craig Ehlo.

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You outlined your rationale quite well. On account of your well-reasoned argument, I hereby proclaim you to be correct. There is no need for further discussion.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Lbj
Curry
Harden
Durant

If you could hand check Now, you'd understand how MJ faced overall better D.

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Definitely. Guys can get fanatical about Jordan. I have younger cousins who started watching basketball in like 2005, well after MJ - even they get super defensive when I suggest that other players might be better than Jordan. I just assume it's a Chicago thing.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY