I've been sitting in front of the TV for Bulls games since the 1986-1987 season, though that one is admittedly hard for me to remember. I grew up in the biggest Bulls fan household you could possibly imagine. Step back, boy.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

You're lying and if you were really the fan that you proclaim yourself to be you would not have attempted to fraudulently overstate Pippen and Grant's value to the team. 7th and 8th leading scorers on the team yet they were instrumental in the team winning 50 games. OK. Totally blindsided you with the Brad Sellers comments. You're done after that. Like they use to say in Mike Tyson punchout "Finish Him"!

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What?

Pippen and Grant were 3rd and 5th on the team in BPM, and 4th and 5th in VORP. Grant was 4th in WS and WS/48. Pippen was 2nd on the team in Usage % behind only Jordan. And that was the regular season. In 10 postseason games that year, they were higher than that. You don't know shit.

Maybe your shit plays in Yahoo Comments. It doesn't play here.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Damn dude you don't know shit. It is bad and you need to put the Hollinger down. Pippen scored 7 points per game and avg 20 minutes a game. I don't care what Analytics or advanced stats or whatever stats you want to cite it wasn't "impact" I actually watched the games unlike you and saw that he didn't do shit. He backed up Brad "Fucking" Sellers. You want to talk "VORP" that was his damn VORP and he backed his garbage ass up. Sellers avg 27 minutes and scored 10 a game and he is a damn laughing stock. YOu are trying to make the argument that they were impactful as rookies without seeing a game. You don't know shit and you are really just in the way frankly.

I know the actual watching of games isn't important for guys that grew listening to statistical Dan Bernstein analysis all day. But watching games matter. It is why scouts come out to see players play. When you see guys in person you tend not to say shit like "Tyrus Thomas and Bobby Portis are "the same player". YOU tend not to think that MCW is a starting level point guard. You don't say shit like JImmy Butler is a future hall of famer or even a top 10 player.


I can't think of one thing that you have ever gotten right yet you keep on with the damn keep on. Of all the guys that post in this forum you are by far the worst and I think you come this way whenever they tire of you in the Baseball threads. You have already proven that you will lie to prove a point so what is the point?

I will come back at you once you get your "weight up" right now you are strictly Arizona Fall Material. Its NBA playoff time. Don't have time for bush league observations. Beat it.

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Why are only 14 percent of black CPS 11th-graders proficient in English?

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Hawaii (fuck) You

LTG finished himself.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

My apologies if this was already posted

www.mjvslebron.net

I played the 96 Bulls against the 2018 Cavs on NBA2K last night. The Bulls won, but LeBron outplayed MJ by a wide margin.

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It's revisionist history to you because you're bogged down in every minute detail. Take a step back/zoom out: what was The Decision? It was a team signing two major free agents to max contracts. That's all it was. Forget parades, press conferences, the coverage, etc. That's all noise. How is this different than Boston adding KG and Pierce in 2007? You guys are fixated on the mechanism by which Bosh and James joined Miami (free agency) while I think it's better to focus on the end result: Miami acquiring two star players at or around the same time. Big deal? It's happened before and will happen again.

Boston in 2007
Orlando in 2000
Houston in 1998
OKC in 2017



What is the difference in real terms? It's not like LBJ had a pick of every star in the league. In hindsight Bosh probably wasn't the best third wheel; they would have been better signing some other big for 60% of the cost and using the rest of the money to surround Wade and James with better players.

And anyway, star players absolutely have a say in where they want to be traded. KG and Ray Allen blessed the trade to Boston. Kobe reportedly blessed his trade to Chicago. Pippen blessed his trade to Houston. If Melo wanted to sign with Chicago in 2014 or whenever it was then he would have directed the Knicks to trade him there.



Jordan is irrelevant here because I'm talking about the general narrative about James. My argument is there is nothing extraordinary about James' teammates post-Decision. I've already pointed out good to great threesomes throughout recent history. James' teams are not head and shoulders above any one of them.

The Duncan thing is disingenuous. He joined a veteran, playoff-tested team with a still effective but fading David Robinson on the roster. He also won during a shortened season. There are so many variables at play during that season but you're implying he carried his team to victory based on his stardom alone. Please.




What's lazy is believing Jordan is flawless. Honestly, Jordan is treated like religion around these parts. You can't say anything critical or question anything before immediately being shamed into repenting for blasphemy. Again, guy took longer to find success than James did. His teams won less coming into the league when compared to LBJ, and LBJ won at a younger age. Without any help whatsoever, James went to the finals as a 22 year old. He won 66 games at 23 with Ben Wallace as his second or third best teammate. Every star has no help at some point in their careers. Between Jordan (early mid '80s), Wade (mid-2000s after Shaq left), Bryant (mid to late 2000s after Shaq left), and Shaq (before Penny), guess who enjoyed more success? It's James.

These are all things Jordan didn't do, but there's so much nonsense surrounding his career that we're led to believe he did virtually everything possible on the court. You could walk down any street in Chicago and make shit up about Jordan and people would believe you. It's impossible to discuss him rationally here.

Jordan was a great individual player who owes his championships to Jerry Krause for finding the right talent to surround him. If Krause traded Jordan to the Minnesota Timberwolves in 1989 then "Michael Jordan" as we know him today wouldn't exist. There would be no statue outside the Target Center. You all believe it's the other way around: Jordan was predestined to win regardless of who played with him because he's a god.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

No, it's not - there are deep costs to free agency depending on who you're acquiring. To acquire James and Bosh and re-sign Wade, Miami had to gut the rest of the roster. That's a huge cost. If you've got a bunch of $4-7M/year players who are good but not special, and then you acquire James and Bosh at high prices, you've got to get rid of those decent $4-7M players and replace them with guys making the minimum. That's a huge cost so I don't agree at all with your premise here.





How was Miami at anymore of a competitive advantage than Boston was when they acquired KG and Ray Allen, or LA when they got Gasol? When those teams got those players they immediately went to the finals, just like the Heat did. So why are we focused on the Heat?



How so? Which team went 72-10 and then 69-13 the next year? Which team avoided a game seven for three straight years except for one series? For some reason you seem hesitant to call those Bulls teams dominant when every metric says they were in fact dominant. And that means they enjoyed a competitive advantage. Why? Because they had star power and a good roster. Why is it a problem when James has help but not MJ?



Again, there's a huge cost to free agency. There is no bottomless pile of money you can throw around to acquire whoever you want. You sign one guy for decent money and that means you're probably saying goodbye to a guy you don't really want to lose but have to anyway.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

Vegan I mean this sincerely, not in a shit talking way: you don’t understand the impact LeBron has had on the league. It’s not getting bogged down in details.

I already explained to you how it was different than the 08 Celtics and you ignored it.

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Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I also never said Jordan was flawless and never proclaimed Wade and Boah as head and shoulders better than other teammates. However you are wrong about Bosh not being a great third wheel. He was great.

The LeBron backers are the ones just blatantly making things up and presenting facts as opinions, not the other way around. If Leash was consistent he would call you guys out too but that’s not what he’s here for.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I don't see the Boston counterargument. Explain?

Also how has this changed the league? And why is Durant to GS necessarily a direct result of LBJ to Miami?

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I'm not trying to make shit up in defense of LBJ. I just think you all are repeating conventional wisdom about LBJ and letting the spectacle of 2011 cloud your analysis.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

For anything I presented as facts, such as LBJ averaging 4 more wins than Jordan during their first seven years in the league, or the teams I listed as benefiting from talent infusions like LBJ did, then feel free to call the bullshit out. You won't find any though.

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

I’ve already answered all three questions at length. I’m not going to repeat myself when you ignored the original answers.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I already did. “This proves LBJ did more with less” is an opinion presented as fact. It completely ignores the context of the league at the time and supposes the teammates were equal. It’s made up bullshit.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

One of us is going to need math to back up and/or refute this eastern conference thing. This article does a partial job.


https://www.foxsports.com/nba/gallery/l ... nts-052517

_________________
Successful calls:

Kyrie Irving will never win anything as a team's alpha: check
T.rubisky is a bust: check
Ben Simmons is a liability: check
The Fields Cult is dumb: double check

2013 CSFMB ROY

“Because he plays in the age of player movement and superteams”

This again goes back to my point that you can’t let LeBron off the hook for getting destroyed by the warriors when it’s a direct result of The Decision and LeBron paving the path for superstars to join other superstars of their own volition.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

So yeah Jordan was significantly more successful despite facing roughly equal competition. Math confirms reality.

_________________
Fare you well, fare you well
I love you more than words can tell
Listen to the river sing sweet songs
To rock my soul

I just watched a Jordan montage from the 2011 reunion. Almost cried. I love that man.

LeBron still has an argument for GOAT, though, and he may be the undisputed GOAT when he retires.

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As i told you before You are essentially Arizona Fall League. Don't know shit yet still has an incessant need to be in the conversation nonetheless.


Interesting thing is that i didn't need this shit to validate my claims regarding Jordan's dominance as i (unlike you) actually WATCHED The games. This is for ignorant guys like you that cannot ever seem to hold any discussion without resorting to this shit..

I must reiterate again. DAMN YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT!

It is scary how much of an outlier Jordan was relative to the other guys on that team.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/te ... /1988.html

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Don't you just love the Know nothing as he prepares his statistically based analytical arguments in which he often times contradicts himself? I know I do.

Carmelo Anthony had a 1.6 VORP as a rookie yet didn't do shit to help Denver improve by 26 games.


Scottie Pippen had an 0.9 VORP as a rookie yet was instrumental in the Bulls winning 50 games.

At some point it may be time to throw in the towel dude. FINISH HIM

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I never said Anthony had no impact. And since you've now also brought up VORP you realize it is a valid stat. You cannot dismiss advanced statistics because they are too complicated for you. Fact is they represent the impact a player makes in games for his team. Deal with it.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

I only cited it because you are clueless about basketball unless you discuss it in those terms. Yeah you didn't say he didn't have impact but you also didn't say that he did either. You diminish the role of one guy that has almost twice the amount of "impact" as a guy whose impact you coincidentally over inflated. Now you are attempting to deflect from it by overemphasizing some meaningless statistic that somehow you find to be important. Using your own meaningless statistic I was able to find out that Jordan had about 12 to 13 times the amount of "impact" as Scottie Pippen. I didn't need the statistic because unlike you I actually watched the games in 1988.

INteresting how you atttempted to deflect from that portion of the show too. You made claims regarding 50 wins and Jordan not being able to attain it until Pippen became a part of the squad yet when presented with evidence using metrics that you find valuable you double and triple down on the claims rather than simply admit that you were wrong.

Pippen's value was miniscule 1988. "Third best VORP" for a guy with less than 1. Damn Joke.

What is funny is that you can't even comprehend the value of the statistics that you yourself often cite. You cite them in the hopes that people won't be able to understand them (much like Bernstein) In doing so you hope to disguise your own ignorance regarding the topic at hand.

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You're the only one that does not understand them.
Fact is Jordan needed Pippen and Grant to win 50 games and win postseason series. Accept these facts.

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Rick Hahn is the best GM in baseball.

Now you're presuming to know what i understand and what i do not understand. You sound foolish unsurprising.

You weren't trolling either but its also unsurprising that you'd resort to that card once its established that you don't know what the hell you are talking about. Finish him.

You quote a silly ass stat like VORP then run from it once it invalidates what it is that you claimed.

Their Vorp is 4th and 5th best on a team where the gap between 1 and 2 is 9.5. Again a damn joke. You resorted to the only card that you have in your rather feeble deck and it made you seem foolish and now you have to resort to weak ass trolling in order to save face.

Your ignorance and need to push an agenda got the best of you once again.


As i said previously get your weight up and actually start watching basketball as opposed to trying to seem so smart about basketball. If you do that then your ignorance won't be as pronounced.

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Finish Him In 1987-1988 Michael Jordan accounted for 32 wins. Pippen and Grant combined accounted for 3. Their combined VORP was only slightly higher than that of Dave Corzine (yet another guy that you'd never heard of and a person no one has ever credited for anything win related).

Again these are stats that you seem to find valuable. The irony in all of this is that you don't even understand the stuff that you often cite.

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May want to change this to LeBron vs Magic...

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You do not talk to me like that! I work too hard to deal with this stuff! I work too hard! I'm an important member of the CSFMB! I drive a Dodge Stratus!