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veganfan21
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:17 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
When LeBron went to the Heat, I remember there being this revelation: LeBron isn't the next Jordan, he was never going to be, what he really is is the next Magic Johnson, for he facilitates rather than finishes and makes everyone around him better. Fast-forward and it's "everyone around LeBron sucks, he has to do everything himself because everyone sucks so much." What changed here? and didn't LeBron put this sucky roster together himself? and doesn't the sucky roster include Kevin Love?


LBJ had good rosters until this year. I don't think any level-headed observer would say any of James' previous teams sucked. Miami lacked some depth but being so top-heavy masked a bit of that. This year is completely different.

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veganfan21
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:22 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Come on,NME. The anti-Lebron crowd is way more ridiculous. If the argument is that someone just thinks Jordan was the best, fine. But that's not good enough. They have to resort to absurd criticisms of Lebron and mythical deification of Jordan.

Just in the last few days, we have had people actually make the argument that Jordan is better because he never flopped and that he is better because if Jordan were on the team, somehow JR Smith would have magically known the score. That's right - people are actually claiming that Jordan was telepathic and would have "willed" JR Smith to pay attention. And that somehow Lebron is worse because he isn't telepathic.

There are many ridiculous LeBron arguments. "But rebounds!", "8 straight finals!", "Better teammate!", "What he is doing at this age is remarkable even though Jordan was winning rings still at this age!".


Can't let you continue to downplay rebounds. A defensive rebound is functionally equivalent to a steal because it marks a change in possession. Do you hate steals? What about possessions? Why do teams continue to employ guys like Joakim Noah, Ben Wallace, Marcus Camby, etc., despite them not having any other skills besides being tall? It's because they rebound.

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Brick
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:37 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Come on,NME. The anti-Lebron crowd is way more ridiculous. If the argument is that someone just thinks Jordan was the best, fine. But that's not good enough. They have to resort to absurd criticisms of Lebron and mythical deification of Jordan.

Just in the last few days, we have had people actually make the argument that Jordan is better because he never flopped and that he is better because if Jordan were on the team, somehow JR Smith would have magically known the score. That's right - people are actually claiming that Jordan was telepathic and would have "willed" JR Smith to pay attention. And that somehow Lebron is worse because he isn't telepathic.

There are many ridiculous LeBron arguments. "But rebounds!", "8 straight finals!", "Better teammate!", "What he is doing at this age is remarkable even though Jordan was winning rings still at this age!".


Can't let you continue to downplay rebounds. A defensive rebound is functionally equivalent to a steal because it marks a change in possession. Do you hate steals? What about possessions? Why do teams continue to employ guys like Joakim Noah, Ben Wallace, Marcus Camby, etc., despite them not having any other skills besides being tall? It's because they rebound.

It's a secondary skill for a guard. If we start weighing that heavily than Jordan may not be top ten against current players.

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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:59 pm 
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Rebounding is a secondary skill for guards, but Lebron allows them to play with smaller lineups because of his rebounding and size in general.

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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:05 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Call it telepathy, call it Phil Jackson, but that never would have happened to the Bulls.


That's only because they never had a player like J.R. Smith. Rodman could be a clown, but his mind and effort were never not fully engaged in the game.

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Brick
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:46 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Rebounding is a secondary skill for guards, but Lebron allows them to play with smaller lineups because of his rebounding and size in general.

I'm not sure this is true compared to the other good teams. The true center is rare these days and they went and got an elite rebounder right away for LeBron in his return to Cleveland. Maybe that is why Love is a token all star now.

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veganfan21
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:02 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Rebounding is a secondary skill for guards, but Lebron allows them to play with smaller lineups because of his rebounding and size in general.

I'm not sure this is true compared to the other good teams. The true center is rare these days and they went and got an elite rebounder right away for LeBron in his return to Cleveland. Maybe that is why Love is a token all star now.


17 PPG and 7 RBG. Not exactly earth shattering. He's not the same player anymore.

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FavreFan
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:07 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Rebounding is a secondary skill for guards, but Lebron allows them to play with smaller lineups because of his rebounding and size in general.

I'm not sure this is true compared to the other good teams. The true center is rare these days and they went and got an elite rebounder right away for LeBron in his return to Cleveland. Maybe that is why Love is a token all star now.


17 PPG and 7 RBG. Not exactly earth shattering. He's not the same player anymore.

His per 36 numbers are close to his best seasons. He’s still the same player.

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Nardi
PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 10:03 pm 
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"That's right - people are actually claiming that Jordan was telepathic and would have "willed" JR Smith to pay attention. And that somehow Lebron is worse because he isn't telepathic."

No. GOATs are luckier than non-GOATs. Maybe if the GOAT didn't punch Kerr in the face every now and then, he doesn't hit a GW 3 in Utah and doesn't become a 3 time championship coach.
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hnd
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:12 pm 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Yes.

Lebron will most likely be more successful post-playing career.


he's put together some enormous dud teams already that he's dragged through the playoffs. not so sure about that. but just having to be better than jordan isn't saying much.
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Brick
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:15 pm 
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hnd wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Yes.

Lebron will most likely be more successful post-playing career.


he's put together some enormous dud teams already that he's dragged through the playoffs. not so sure about that. but just having to be better than jordan isn't saying much.

Yeah, but he combined Who Wants To Be A Millionaire and Plinko!

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Curious Hair
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 3:27 pm 
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Laughed hard at PFT Commenter's story about how LeBron wants to make sure his teammates are intelligent, so he assigns them books, but the book is The Godfather and LeBron's bookmark has never moved past the beginning of the book.

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Brick
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:17 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Come on,NME. The anti-Lebron crowd is way more ridiculous. If the argument is that someone just thinks Jordan was the best, fine. But that's not good enough. They have to resort to absurd criticisms of Lebron and mythical deification of Jordan.

Just in the last few days, we have had people actually make the argument that Jordan is better because he never flopped and that he is better because if Jordan were on the team, somehow JR Smith would have magically known the score. That's right - people are actually claiming that Jordan was telepathic and would have "willed" JR Smith to pay attention. And that somehow Lebron is worse because he isn't telepathic.

There are many ridiculous LeBron arguments. "But rebounds!", "8 straight finals!", "Better teammate!", "What he is doing at this age is remarkable even though Jordan was winning rings still at this age!".


None of those are even close to "he would have made another guy think what he was supposed to think through sheer will."

https://deadspin.com/lebron-james-has-always-had-to-carry-useless-weaklings-1826586894

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leashyourkids
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:35 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Come on,NME. The anti-Lebron crowd is way more ridiculous. If the argument is that someone just thinks Jordan was the best, fine. But that's not good enough. They have to resort to absurd criticisms of Lebron and mythical deification of Jordan.

Just in the last few days, we have had people actually make the argument that Jordan is better because he never flopped and that he is better because if Jordan were on the team, somehow JR Smith would have magically known the score. That's right - people are actually claiming that Jordan was telepathic and would have "willed" JR Smith to pay attention. And that somehow Lebron is worse because he isn't telepathic.

There are many ridiculous LeBron arguments. "But rebounds!", "8 straight finals!", "Better teammate!", "What he is doing at this age is remarkable even though Jordan was winning rings still at this age!".


None of those are even close to "he would have made another guy think what he was supposed to think through sheer will."

https://deadspin.com/lebron-james-has-always-had-to-carry-useless-weaklings-1826586894


Wow, really impressive.

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veganfan21
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:17 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Come on,NME. The anti-Lebron crowd is way more ridiculous. If the argument is that someone just thinks Jordan was the best, fine. But that's not good enough. They have to resort to absurd criticisms of Lebron and mythical deification of Jordan.

Just in the last few days, we have had people actually make the argument that Jordan is better because he never flopped and that he is better because if Jordan were on the team, somehow JR Smith would have magically known the score. That's right - people are actually claiming that Jordan was telepathic and would have "willed" JR Smith to pay attention. And that somehow Lebron is worse because he isn't telepathic.

There are many ridiculous LeBron arguments. "But rebounds!", "8 straight finals!", "Better teammate!", "What he is doing at this age is remarkable even though Jordan was winning rings still at this age!".


None of those are even close to "he would have made another guy think what he was supposed to think through sheer will."

https://deadspin.com/lebron-james-has-always-had-to-carry-useless-weaklings-1826586894



Come on, Rick. We're talking about arguments made on the board. Any reasonable person would have trashed that "article" after reading just the title.

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