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 Post subject: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:59 am 
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Thread Instructions: Post a news article and tell us what independent minded poster JLN thinks about the story. Should be tough, right?

Quote:
Subway Shover In MAGA Hat Indicted On Hate Crime Charges: DA

UNION SQUARE, NY -- The Brooklyn man who wore a 'Make America Great Again' hat as he shoved a Latino man onto the subway tracks at Union Square has been formally charged with multiple hate crimes, prosecutors said Wednesday.

Willie Ames, 47, was indicted on four hate crime charges - including assault and attempted assault - and an aggravated harassment charge in New York State Supreme Court, said Manhattan District Attorney Cyrus Vance.

Ames allegedly attacked two fellow commuters, ages 24 and 26, on the platform of the 14th Street - Union Square subway station at around 8:15 p.m on April 20 after yelling racist slurs at both men aboard a northbound 4 train, according to the indictment.

"You guys come here to take our jobs and you bring drugs," Ames yelled at the men, according to the criminal complaint filed against him. He also called the man a "f------ Mexican" and said "you people are dirty, you people are nasty," Patch previously reported.

When the train stopped at Union Square, Ames dragged the 26-year-old man off the subway car by his clothing and attacked him, punching him three times in the head before knocking him onto the train tracks, prosecutors said.

He then attempted to hit the man's 24-year-old friend but fled the station when a witness called 911, police said. The 24-year-old was able lift his friend from the train tracks with help from a bystander.

"This defendant's attacks on two New Yorkers were attacks on all New Yorkers," Vance said. "The First Amendment guarantees the rights of bigots to spew hateful, fearful, anti-immigrant rhetoric on television and Twitter. It does not authorize acts of violence against New Yorkers."

Ames, whose last known address was an East Williamsburg homeless shelter, was caught on surveillance footage wearing the signature red "Make America Great Again" hat associated with President Donald Trump's campaign. U.S. Marshals arrested him less than a week later.


https://patch.com/new-york/gramercy-murray-hill/subway-shover-maga-hat-indicted-hate-crime-charges-da


JLN's Take: Ames obviously did nothing wrong. He probably feared for his life and had no choice but to shove this man onto the subway tracks. The media once again rushes to label someone as racist when there is no clear evidence in this case. Standing on a subway platform doesn't give you the right to not be thrown onto tracks. I now plan on arguing this point for at least 10 pages.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:01 am 
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Most effort DB has put into a thread in years and it's retarded.


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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:01 am 
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I’m guessing he’ll think you’re a fucking useless moron but that’s a given .

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:04 am 
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JLN's Actual Take: I, because they tacitly criminalize otherwise protected speech, do not agree with hate crime statutes in general, however the reported actions of this man clearly fit what laws we have on the books, and he should be prosecuted for his crimes.


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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:05 am 
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Do you seriously think this is clever? Just call him a racist, and urge businesses to publicly shun him.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:06 am 
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You toss somebody on the tracks and that should be attempted murder, what if that guy landed on the 3rd rail or got hit by a train.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:08 am 
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JLN's take: both sides were at fault.


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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:09 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Do you seriously think this is clever? Just call him a racist, and urge businesses to publicly shun him.

Is the guy who did the pushing a racist?

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:11 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Do you seriously think this is clever? Just call him a racist, and urge businesses to publicly shun him.

Is the guy who did the pushing a racist?


Is Kirkwood a racist for calling Rep. Waters a monkey? Why didn't you hound him around a day asking him to prove how not racist he is?

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:14 am 
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I don't think it is a coincidence that Scott Baio was an early supporter of Trump and his old running mate ends up being a patsy in this mind control experiment

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:15 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:15 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
I don't think it is a coincidence that Scott Baio was an early supporter of Trump and his old running mate ends up being a patsy in this mind control experiment

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Last edited by Caller Bob on Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:17 am 
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Quote:
Junction City man, 81, sentenced for hate crime after he shot at Hmong victim

STEVENS POINT - The victim of an 81-year-old Junction City man convicted of a hate crime said she still has nightmares about him shooting at her.

Mai Houa Moua used an interpreter to give Portage County District Attorney Louis Molepske Jr. a written statement for Friday's sentencing of Henry M. Kaminski. Moua doesn't speak English well and didn't want to speak in court, Molepske told Portage County Circuit Judge Thomas Eagon.

"Seeing the gun pointed at me, my body went numb, and I thought to myself, 'This is where I die,'" Moua said in the statement Molepske read during the sentencing. "I have never felt this much fear in all my life."

Moua said her family was forced to relocate because they didn't feel it was safe to live next door to Kaminski, who had been free on a $5,000 cash bond his daughter posted for him the day after the March 6, 2017, incident. The family was paying for two homes, she said.

As part of a plea agreement, Kaminski pleaded no contest to and was found guilty of second-degree recklessly endangering safety as a hate crime and one count of child pornography possession.

Kaminski had problems with his Hmong neighbors in the past because he didn't like their children playing in his yard, Molepske said. On March 6, 2017, Moua was in her garden when Kaminski came out of his home, pointed a gun in her direction and fired.

Kaminski went into his house before going back out and firing two more shots toward Moua. When he went back into his home, Moua ran into her house and stayed there until deputies arrived.

One deputy stationed himself in a place to watch Kaminski's home when Kaminski came out and fired shots toward the deputy, Molepske said. Kaminski then went into his home and stayed there until deputies worked with his daughter to get him to surrender.

Kaminski was taken to a hospital where a blood test showed he had a blood-alcohol concentration of 0.259 percent. Kaminski also made comments to deputies about his dislike for the Hmong people and how they were taking over Junction City.

While searching Kaminski's home, officers found images of child pornography on Kaminski's computer, and he told officers he had the photos because he was curious about it.

Kaminski's attorney, Jonathan LaVoy, said comments Kaminski made to officers were about his neighbors and not the Hmong people in general.

Kaminski is a veteran who worked for the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point for 24 years before he retired, LaVoy said. He had been a devoted father and husband, but turned to drugs and alcohol after his wife died of cancer in 1999, his lawyer said.

LaVoy said Kaminski's daughter has been caring for her father and came with him to Friday's sentencing. She gave him a hug goodbye prior to the hearing and fears it's the last time she'll see her father, the attorney said.

The child pornography charge carries a mandatory minimum sentence of three years in prison. As part of a joint recommendation, Molepske asked Judge Eagon to give Kaminski a stayed sentence of two years in prison on the recklessly endangering safety charge with two years probation and the required three-year prison sentence on the child pornography charge followed by three years of extended supervision.

Kaminski, who was clean shaven for Friday's hearing and wore suspenders and a plaid shirt, declined to make a statement prior to his sentencing.

Eagon said both charges were serious and it would unduly diminish the perceived seriousness of Kaminski's actions toward his neighbor and the deputy if his prison sentence were suspended.

The judge said Kaminski was lucky more than one person didn't die that day last year. Moua could have been killed by Kaminski, and Kaminski could have been killed if deputies hadn't shown restraint, Eagon said.

Eagon also said he was surprised that a veteran would show such hatred for the Hmong people, who helped Americans during the Vietnam War era to the point where many had to leave their homeland and find sanctuary in the United States. The judge said he found it disturbing that Kaminski would violate that sanctuary.

Eagon sentence Kaminski to three years in prison and three years of extended supervision on each of the two charges and had them run concurrently.

He granted LaVoy's request to find Kaminski eligible for the state's substance abuse program, which would allow him to be released from prison early if he completes the required work. But the judge said Kaminski would not be eligible for the program until he has served two years in prison.


https://www.stevenspointjournal.com/story/news/2018/06/01/junction-city-man-henry-kaminski-sentenced-hate-crime-child-porn-shooting-hmong-neighbor/663310002/

JLN's Take: This is obvious police overreach. This guy shot at deputies, but he didn't even close his garage during the act so I don't know what all the hoopla is about. Many fine people have shown an interest in child pornography, like Pete Townsend for example. How do we know Kaminski wasn't researching to write a book of his own on the topic? Kaminski has a right to want to preserve his heritage of downloading child pornography and firing shots at police officers and should not have to stand idly by and watch the fine town of Junction City be destroyed by the Hmong people.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:19 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Do you seriously think this is clever? Just call him a racist, and urge businesses to publicly shun him.

Is the guy who did the pushing a racist?


Is Kirkwood a racist for calling Rep. Waters a monkey? Why didn't you hound him around a day asking him to prove how not racist he is?

Let's start with my question. Get some common ground. Is the guy who did the pushing a racist?

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:19 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Do you seriously think this is clever? Just call him a racist, and urge businesses to publicly shun him.

Is the guy who did the pushing a racist?


Is Kirkwood a racist for calling Rep. Waters a monkey? Why didn't you hound him around a day asking him to prove how not racist he is?

Let's start with my question. Get some common ground. Is the guy who did the pushing a racist?

The pusher is black. This should be easy for WFR to answer.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:23 am 
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Quote:
Willie Ames, 47, was indicted on four hate crime charges -


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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:25 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Do you seriously think this is clever? Just call him a racist, and urge businesses to publicly shun him.

Is the guy who did the pushing a racist?


Is Kirkwood a racist for calling Rep. Waters a monkey? Why didn't you hound him around a day asking him to prove how not racist he is?

Let's start with my question. Get some common ground. Is the guy who did the pushing a racist?


No thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:29 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
Quote:
Junction City man, 81, sentenced for hate crime after he shot at Hmong victim

STEVENS POINT - The victim of an 81-year-old Junction City man convicted of a hate crime said she still has nightmares about him shooting at her.

Mai Houa Moua used an interpreter to give Portage County District Attorney Louis Molepske Jr. a written statement for Friday's sentencing of Henry M. Kaminski. Moua doesn't speak English well and didn't want to speak in court, Molepske told Portage County Circuit Judge Thomas Eagon.

"Seeing the gun pointed at me, my body went numb, and I thought to myself, 'This is where I die,'" Moua said in the statement Molepske read during the sentencing. "I have never felt this much fear in all my life."

Moua said her family was forced to relocate because they didn't feel it was safe to live next door to Kaminski, who had been free on a $5,000 cash bond his daughter posted for him the day after the March 6, 2017, incident. The family was paying for two homes, she said.

As part of a plea agreement, Kaminski pleaded no contest to and was found guilty of second-degree recklessly endangering safety as a hate crime and one count of child pornography possession.

Kaminski had problems with his Hmong neighbors in the past because he didn't like their children playing in his yard, Molepske said. On March 6, 2017, Moua was in her garden when Kaminski came out of his home, pointed a gun in her direction and fired.

Kaminski went into his house before going back out and firing two more shots toward Moua. When he went back into his home, Moua ran into her house and stayed there until deputies arrived.

One deputy stationed himself in a place to watch Kaminski's home when Kaminski came out and fired shots toward the deputy, Molepske said. Kaminski then went into his home and stayed there until deputies worked with his daughter to get him to surrender.

Kaminski was taken to a hospital where a blood test showed he had a blood-alcohol concentration of 0.259 percent. Kaminski also made comments to deputies about his dislike for the Hmong people and how they were taking over Junction City.

While searching Kaminski's home, officers found images of child pornography on Kaminski's computer, and he told officers he had the photos because he was curious about it.

Kaminski's attorney, Jonathan LaVoy, said comments Kaminski made to officers were about his neighbors and not the Hmong people in general.

Kaminski is a veteran who worked for the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point for 24 years before he retired, LaVoy said. He had been a devoted father and husband, but turned to drugs and alcohol after his wife died of cancer in 1999, his lawyer said.

LaVoy said Kaminski's daughter has been caring for her father and came with him to Friday's sentencing. She gave him a hug goodbye prior to the hearing and fears it's the last time she'll see her father, the attorney said.

The child pornography charge carries a mandatory minimum sentence of three years in prison. As part of a joint recommendation, Molepske asked Judge Eagon to give Kaminski a stayed sentence of two years in prison on the recklessly endangering safety charge with two years probation and the required three-year prison sentence on the child pornography charge followed by three years of extended supervision.

Kaminski, who was clean shaven for Friday's hearing and wore suspenders and a plaid shirt, declined to make a statement prior to his sentencing.

Eagon said both charges were serious and it would unduly diminish the perceived seriousness of Kaminski's actions toward his neighbor and the deputy if his prison sentence were suspended.

The judge said Kaminski was lucky more than one person didn't die that day last year. Moua could have been killed by Kaminski, and Kaminski could have been killed if deputies hadn't shown restraint, Eagon said.

Eagon also said he was surprised that a veteran would show such hatred for the Hmong people, who helped Americans during the Vietnam War era to the point where many had to leave their homeland and find sanctuary in the United States. The judge said he found it disturbing that Kaminski would violate that sanctuary.

Eagon sentence Kaminski to three years in prison and three years of extended supervision on each of the two charges and had them run concurrently.

He granted LaVoy's request to find Kaminski eligible for the state's substance abuse program, which would allow him to be released from prison early if he completes the required work. But the judge said Kaminski would not be eligible for the program until he has served two years in prison.


https://www.stevenspointjournal.com/story/news/2018/06/01/junction-city-man-henry-kaminski-sentenced-hate-crime-child-porn-shooting-hmong-neighbor/663310002/

JLN's Take: This is obvious police overreach. This guy shot at deputies, but he didn't even close his garage during the act so I don't know what all the hoopla is about. Many fine people have shown an interest in child pornography, like Pete Townsend for example. How do we know Kaminski wasn't researching to write a book of his own on the topic? Kaminski has a right to want to preserve his heritage of downloading child pornography and firing shots at police officers and should not have to stand idly by and watch the fine town of Junction City be destroyed by the Hmong people.



It's Wisconsin...it's like the Arkansas of the North. Isn't everyone drunk and racist up there?

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:29 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Do you seriously think this is clever? Just call him a racist, and urge businesses to publicly shun him.

Is the guy who did the pushing a racist?


Is Kirkwood a racist for calling Rep. Waters a monkey? Why didn't you hound him around a day asking him to prove how not racist he is?

Let's start with my question. Get some common ground. Is the guy who did the pushing a racist?


No thanks.

Responses like this ruin your credibility.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:34 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Do you seriously think this is clever? Just call him a racist, and urge businesses to publicly shun him.

Is the guy who did the pushing a racist?


Is Kirkwood a racist for calling Rep. Waters a monkey? Why didn't you hound him around a day asking him to prove how not racist he is?

Let's start with my question. Get some common ground. Is the guy who did the pushing a racist?


No thanks.

Responses like this ruin your credibility.


According to who? I have already provided definitions of racism over and over again. I said it's someone who uses racial bias as a justification to intentionally injure others. You can use that definition without checking back with me on a case by case basis. But as you have proven you are mostly just interested in using racism to shame people you either disagree with or don't like or to control conversation.

Hence if I comment on a story you need to hound me for pages on the degree to which it offended me. If someone uses the same comparison it's ignored.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:35 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
JLN's Take: This is obvious police overreach. This guy shot at deputies, but he didn't even close his garage during the act so I don't know what all the hoopla is about. Many fine people have shown an interest in child pornography, like Pete Townsend for example. How do we know Kaminski wasn't researching to write a book of his own on the topic? Kaminski has a right to want to preserve his heritage of downloading child pornography and firing shots at police officers and should not have to stand idly by and watch the fine town of Junction City be destroyed by the Hmong people.

:?: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:39 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
According to who? I have already provided definitions of racism over and over again. I said it's someone who uses racial bias as a justification to intentionally injure others. You can use that definition without checking back with me on a case by case basis. But as you have proven you are mostly just interested in using racism to shame people you either disagree with or don't like or to control conversation.

Hence if I comment on a story you need to hound me for pages on the degree to which it offended me. If someone uses the same comparison it's ignored.

I'll be blunt. If you can't even say that this guy is racist then it is clear you have an agenda far more extreme than the people you are constantly talking about. If racism is an overused label then you should be happy to use it in an obvious case. Instead you want to be a victim.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:50 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
According to who? I have already provided definitions of racism over and over again. I said it's someone who uses racial bias as a justification to intentionally injure others. You can use that definition without checking back with me on a case by case basis. But as you have proven you are mostly just interested in using racism to shame people you either disagree with or don't like or to control conversation.

Hence if I comment on a story you need to hound me for pages on the degree to which it offended me. If someone uses the same comparison it's ignored.

I'll be blunt. If you can't even say that this guy is racist then it is clear you have an agenda far more extreme than the people you are constantly talking about. If racism is an overused label then you should be happy to use it in an obvious case. Instead you want to be a victim.


Did you read anything that I said? What do you think the bolded means? Why do I have to scream racist for you in every case you can dig up? I will be blunt with you. You have decided that you don't like me, so you use petty attacks to label me a racist without even meeting me or considering what I am saying with an open mind.

If you really cared about racism as you have defined it you would not be hounding me right now. So why are you giving Kirkwood a pass?

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:51 am 
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I wanted this thread to be civil, but I see others here are incapable of following thread instructions. Sadly, this is a reflection of the entire country right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:55 am 
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The Hmong are pretty bad about freely wandering onto other people's property (they don't really have a concept of private land ownership) but you don't have to shoot them.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:58 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
According to who? I have already provided definitions of racism over and over again. I said it's someone who uses racial bias as a justification to intentionally injure others. You can use that definition without checking back with me on a case by case basis. But as you have proven you are mostly just interested in using racism to shame people you either disagree with or don't like or to control conversation.

Hence if I comment on a story you need to hound me for pages on the degree to which it offended me. If someone uses the same comparison it's ignored.

I'll be blunt. If you can't even say that this guy is racist then it is clear you have an agenda far more extreme than the people you are constantly talking about. If racism is an overused label then you should be happy to use it in an obvious case. Instead you want to be a victim.


Did you read anything that I said? What do you think the bolded means? Why do I have to scream racist for you in every case you can dig up? I will be blunt with you. You have decided that you don't like me, so you use petty attacks to label me a racist without even meeting me or considering what I am saying with an open mind.

If you really cared about racism as you have defined it you would not be hounding me right now. So why are you giving Kirkwood a pass?
I didn't see an answer. It should have been an easy question to answer. It was an attempt to get to common ground or understand you better.

I also didn't label you a racist. I don't know if I ever have. You certainly are a person who downplays to an extreme level the role of racism in society. You get quite upset that others don't share your limited and illogical definition that include "actively harming". If you have a specific instance where I called you a racist I would appreciate it if you would link me to it though.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:08 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
According to who? I have already provided definitions of racism over and over again. I said it's someone who uses racial bias as a justification to intentionally injure others. You can use that definition without checking back with me on a case by case basis. But as you have proven you are mostly just interested in using racism to shame people you either disagree with or don't like or to control conversation.

Hence if I comment on a story you need to hound me for pages on the degree to which it offended me. If someone uses the same comparison it's ignored.

I'll be blunt. If you can't even say that this guy is racist then it is clear you have an agenda far more extreme than the people you are constantly talking about. If racism is an overused label then you should be happy to use it in an obvious case. Instead you want to be a victim.


Did you read anything that I said? What do you think the bolded means? Why do I have to scream racist for you in every case you can dig up? I will be blunt with you. You have decided that you don't like me, so you use petty attacks to label me a racist without even meeting me or considering what I am saying with an open mind.

If you really cared about racism as you have defined it you would not be hounding me right now. So why are you giving Kirkwood a pass?
I didn't see an answer. It should have been an easy question to answer. It was an attempt to get to common ground or understand you better.

I also didn't label you a racist. I don't know if I ever have. You certainly are a person who downplays to an extreme level the role of racism in society. You get quite upset that others don't share your limited and illogical definition that include "actively harming". If you have a specific instance where I called you a racist I would appreciate it if you would link me to it though.


Ok Julie logic. You are being daft on purpose. Clearly I have stated that it's racist. You are illustrating my point by deflecting rather than being honest.

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:13 am 
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Good old white Trump MAGA hate racists indeed

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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:19 am 
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Douchebag wrote:
I wanted this thread to be civil, but I see others here are incapable of following thread instructions. Sadly, this is a reflection of the entire country right now.

Yes, very sad to see MANY of the usual suspects derail a thread with their standard odd posts.


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 Post subject: Re: Guess JLN's Take
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:20 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Clearly I have stated that it's racist.
Now you have. I agree.

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