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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:22 pm 
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hnd wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
You vastly overestimate the impact saving 5% for MANY will have for their "retirement". Yes, something is better than nothing.

But you underestimate the plight MANY Boomers are facing with their 401(k)s and they didn't face the realities of crippling student loans, artifically high housing costs, etc. It will only get much worse for future generations.


as one who has done non-profit financial advising, most people do actually have 5% to spare. my job was to find it and i found a shit ton of it. it might mean selling the brand new 30k car and buy a used vehicle, dropping the 5tv whole house dvr package but most people have it. most of the people i worked with were in the 30-50k income range.

Most people could find it if they just once looked at their monthly budget and saw where their money was going.

Also, just a shot in the dark here, but let me guess, you were coordinating FPU classes, right?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
hnd wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
You vastly overestimate the impact saving 5% for MANY will have for their "retirement". Yes, something is better than nothing.

But you underestimate the plight MANY Boomers are facing with their 401(k)s and they didn't face the realities of crippling student loans, artifically high housing costs, etc. It will only get much worse for future generations.


as one who has done non-profit financial advising, most people do actually have 5% to spare. my job was to find it and i found a shit ton of it. it might mean selling the brand new 30k car and buy a used vehicle, dropping the 5tv whole house dvr package but most people have it. most of the people i worked with were in the 30-50k income range.

Most people could find it if they just once looked at their monthly budget and saw where their money was going.

Also, just a shot in the dark here, but let me guess, you were coordinating FPU classes, right?


That would require not dropping 50$ on grubhub sushi bc they are hungry, or buying Evan Williams over Jack.

The fucking horror.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:26 pm 
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ToxicMasculinity wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
hnd wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
You vastly overestimate the impact saving 5% for MANY will have for their "retirement". Yes, something is better than nothing.

But you underestimate the plight MANY Boomers are facing with their 401(k)s and they didn't face the realities of crippling student loans, artifically high housing costs, etc. It will only get much worse for future generations.


as one who has done non-profit financial advising, most people do actually have 5% to spare. my job was to find it and i found a shit ton of it. it might mean selling the brand new 30k car and buy a used vehicle, dropping the 5tv whole house dvr package but most people have it. most of the people i worked with were in the 30-50k income range.

Most people could find it if they just once looked at their monthly budget and saw where their money was going.

Also, just a shot in the dark here, but let me guess, you were coordinating FPU classes, right?


That would require not dropping 50$ on grubhub sushi bc they are hungry, or buying Evan Williams over Jack.

The fucking horror.
I know, it's so tough being a fucking adult and having to take responsibility for your financial health, even if that means saying no to something you really want.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:26 pm 
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ToxicMasculinity wrote:
That would require not dropping 50$ on grubhub sushi bc they are hungry, or buying Evan Williams over Jack.

The fucking horror.

What kind of savage drinks Evan Williams OR Jack?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:28 pm 
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i did it through a program with Mass Mutual. quite frankly it might as well of been FPU but instead of it being self realized, we walked them through the program. it didn't have cool terms like "debt snowball" or anything but the principles were the same. the outfit i was with did not agree with dave on the whole life insurance crap.

lots of people walk out of FPU with frustration and no accountability to actually do that stuff. I like that program a lot though. People came to us because they were looking for financial help and the only way they could get it was if they agreed to go through our program AND actually hit some goals.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:29 pm 
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oh and for the record i agree with dave on the whole life insurance scam. it should only be used when you've exhausted all other tax shelters for your money.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Jaw Breaker wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Even if you have 1 million dollars in your 401k, and that does not describe most people, you can only really take about $25,000 a year from that and feel confident in it lasting. That's a tough number if you want to do anything in retirement but sit at home and watch the Price Is Right.

With a pension, you could live to 105 and still be getting that check. That's certainly a comforting thought for the retiree.


A pension shouldn't be much more than that though. It should be one part of your retirement, with SS and personal savings representing the rest. It's expected that by the time you retire, your house is paid off, your kids are grown (and able to help support you if necessary), you've bought all the big ticket items you'll need. It's only been fairly recently where there seems to be this mentality that (public) pensions should be 75-100% or more of the salary you were earning while on the job.

Most of the people relying on government pensions don't receive social security. (ie - they get a pension instead)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:47 pm 
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hnd wrote:
thats not what you do with your 1 million dollars when you retire....like at all.... you aren't spending your 1 million dollars over the course of the rest of your life.

you take some of that money and put it into an annuity that pays somewhere historically around 5-6%. the annual payment an institution pays you to utilize your money for their lending purposes. so when you die, that million dollars is still yours but a bank paid you to use it. the other popular method is throught traditional investing and withdrawing a set % of your investments. 3-5% is pretty typical.
Annuities are almost always bad deals for the consumer. That's why banks offer them. You aren't being handed free money.

I was using 2% in my example, but your second part is how people in general would use a 401k. If you are taking 5% out, and investing in low risk options your money is going to go down every year. That's why there are constant articles about how $1 million is a bad threshold for thinking you have enough for retirement unless you just want to sit around all day watching the Price is Right. Not much room for travel, or other retirement activities.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Most of the people relying on government pensions don't receive social security. (ie - they get a pension instead)


True, but they also didn’t have to contribute to it either (which is currently about 12% for the SS employee/employer contribution).

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:33 pm 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
hnd wrote:
thats not what you do with your 1 million dollars when you retire....like at all.... you aren't spending your 1 million dollars over the course of the rest of your life.

you take some of that money and put it into an annuity that pays somewhere historically around 5-6%. the annual payment an institution pays you to utilize your money for their lending purposes. so when you die, that million dollars is still yours but a bank paid you to use it. the other popular method is throught traditional investing and withdrawing a set % of your investments. 3-5% is pretty typical.
Annuities are almost always bad deals for the consumer. That's why banks offer them. You aren't being handed free money.

I was using 2% in my example, but your second part is how people in general would use a 401k. If you are taking 5% out, and investing in low risk options your money is going to go down every year. That's why there are constant articles about how $1 million is a bad threshold for thinking you have enough for retirement unless you just want to sit around all day watching the Price is Right. Not much room for travel, or other retirement activities.


they are only bad in that your money is no longer liquid. which is why its suggested to not put all your eggs in one basket. its safer than having to deal with market fluctuations.

my guy recommends 3 fold approach, annuity, traditional investment, and COH. 1 million dollars isn't what it was even 20 years ago, but in the end, if done right you still have close to your million dollars upon death to pass along. whereas with your pension its over. its the tradeoff. most pension guys i know leave their families property/vehicle assets. not saying that you owe anyone anything more but pensions aren't bullet proof either.

buddy is retired teamster had his pension cut 1/3. nothing he can do its gone.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:38 pm 
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hnd wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
hnd wrote:
thats not what you do with your 1 million dollars when you retire....like at all.... you aren't spending your 1 million dollars over the course of the rest of your life.

you take some of that money and put it into an annuity that pays somewhere historically around 5-6%. the annual payment an institution pays you to utilize your money for their lending purposes. so when you die, that million dollars is still yours but a bank paid you to use it. the other popular method is throught traditional investing and withdrawing a set % of your investments. 3-5% is pretty typical.
Annuities are almost always bad deals for the consumer. That's why banks offer them. You aren't being handed free money.

I was using 2% in my example, but your second part is how people in general would use a 401k. If you are taking 5% out, and investing in low risk options your money is going to go down every year. That's why there are constant articles about how $1 million is a bad threshold for thinking you have enough for retirement unless you just want to sit around all day watching the Price is Right. Not much room for travel, or other retirement activities.


they are only bad in that your money is no longer liquid. which is why its suggested to not put all your eggs in one basket. its safer than having to deal with market fluctuations.

my guy recommends 3 fold approach, annuity, traditional investment, and COH. 1 million dollars isn't what it was even 20 years ago, but in the end, if done right you still have close to your million dollars upon death to pass along. whereas with your pension its over. its the tradeoff. most pension guys i know leave their families property/vehicle assets. not saying that you owe anyone anything more but pensions aren't bullet proof either.

buddy is retired teamster had his pension cut 1/3. nothing he can do its gone.

This is the case with a lot of government pensions as well. Part of the reason Illinois is in this current mess is that they are forbidden from adjusting the pensions per the state constitution. As a result, they have to pay out unsustainable pensions at the expense of the current taxpayers.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:47 pm 
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hnd wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
hnd wrote:
thats not what you do with your 1 million dollars when you retire....like at all.... you aren't spending your 1 million dollars over the course of the rest of your life.

you take some of that money and put it into an annuity that pays somewhere historically around 5-6%. the annual payment an institution pays you to utilize your money for their lending purposes. so when you die, that million dollars is still yours but a bank paid you to use it. the other popular method is throught traditional investing and withdrawing a set % of your investments. 3-5% is pretty typical.
Annuities are almost always bad deals for the consumer. That's why banks offer them. You aren't being handed free money.

I was using 2% in my example, but your second part is how people in general would use a 401k. If you are taking 5% out, and investing in low risk options your money is going to go down every year. That's why there are constant articles about how $1 million is a bad threshold for thinking you have enough for retirement unless you just want to sit around all day watching the Price is Right. Not much room for travel, or other retirement activities.


they are only bad in that your money is no longer liquid. which is why its suggested to not put all your eggs in one basket. its safer than having to deal with market fluctuations.

my guy recommends 3 fold approach, annuity, traditional investment, and COH. 1 million dollars isn't what it was even 20 years ago, but in the end, if done right you still have close to your million dollars upon death to pass along. whereas with your pension its over. its the tradeoff. most pension guys i know leave their families property/vehicle assets. not saying that you owe anyone anything more but pensions aren't bullet proof either.

buddy is retired teamster had his pension cut 1/3. nothing he can do its gone.


Yes, I recently helped my parents out and this is similar advice. The annuity is a good deal, but you don't want it to be your entire egg.

Also, I will not pass my millions onto my kin. It will instead be donated to the Donald Trump Memorial Library.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:02 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
It will instead be donated to the Donald Trump Memorial Library.


How many copies of Mein Kampf do they really need?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:26 pm 
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Caller Bob wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
It will instead be donated to the Donald Trump Memorial Library.


How many copies of Mein Kampf do they really need?


NOT ENOUGH

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:27 pm 
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Quitting drinking saves thousands and thousands of dollars every year and prevents aging. I stopped and it made me crazy, but I'm cool with that trade off.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:06 pm 
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America wrote:
Quitting drinking saves thousands and thousands of dollars every year and prevents aging. I stopped and it made me crazy, but I'm cool with that trade off.


So did I, and it made me a boring Republican. Whatever. Where is Scorehead?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:18 pm 
leashyourkids wrote:
America wrote:
Quitting drinking saves thousands and thousands of dollars every year and prevents aging. I stopped and it made me crazy, but I'm cool with that trade off.


So did I, and it made me a boring Republican. Whatever. Where is Scorehead?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:42 pm 
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So is the long game here is when a majority stop paying dues the state can come in and easily slash pay?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:48 pm 
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Baby McNown wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
America wrote:
Quitting drinking saves thousands and thousands of dollars every year and prevents aging. I stopped and it made me crazy, but I'm cool with that trade off.


So did I, and it made me a boring Republican. Whatever. Where is Scorehead?

Cooper’s Hawk.


:lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:27 pm 
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One day the only public union left will be police and the libs are not going to be happy about it.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:31 pm 
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America wrote:
One day the only public union left will be police and the libs are not going to be happy about it.

when you first began posting you were a "big time eff the man" guy.

now you're just a "ya gotta piss off the libs" even if it means bending down, grabbing my ankles and taking it as usual from the man

what changed


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:36 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
America wrote:
One day the only public union left will be police and the libs are not going to be happy about it.

when you first began posting you were a "big time eff the man" guy.

now you're just a "ya gotta piss off the libs" even if it means bending down, grabbing my ankles and taking it as usual from the man

what changed


Stopped drinking. Went crazy.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:37 pm 
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I've answered this a million times. You have the establishmemt media, corporate interests and politicians all telling you that Trump is bad. That police are bad. Whites are bad. Men are bad. They say those things are the establishment, except those feeding us this narrative are the actual establishment themselves.

I was wrong about who "the man" was. The path of true resistance is not to the left, but to the right. Trump is the outlet of those who truly want to resist what has happened to our culture and society.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:50 pm 
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Corporate interests against Trump?!

They love the guy. He nearly cut the tax rate in half and told pollution overseers stop caring. Shoot, regulators in general are being ordered to cut back left and right.

Something ain’t right with ya kid. :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:00 pm 
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Name one publically traded, large corporation in the country that doesn't have a bloated HR department that obsesses itself with #MeToo and keeping itself artificially diverse. You're right, they tolerate Trump because he's made them money, but they are no less opposed to upsetting the liberal order than the political elites or the media.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:32 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
America wrote:
One day the only public union left will be police and the libs are not going to be happy about it.

when you first began posting you were a "big time eff the man" guy.

now you're just a "ya gotta piss off the libs" even if it means bending down, grabbing my ankles and taking it as usual from the man

what changed


One day, you are going to realize that Trump is the anti-establishment politician. That's not to say he doesn't have advisers who have done well from our system. Hell, it's not to even say that he hasn't. It's about the people who voted for Trump and who continue to be mocked and ignored. Trump is a big FU to every condescending media member, politician, or public figurehead who has ignored the working class and painted them as xenophobic monsters for too long.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:37 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
America wrote:
One day the only public union left will be police and the libs are not going to be happy about it.

when you first began posting you were a "big time eff the man" guy.

now you're just a "ya gotta piss off the libs" even if it means bending down, grabbing my ankles and taking it as usual from the man

what changed


One day, you are going to realize that Trump is the anti-establishment politician. That's not to say he doesn't have advisers who have done well from our system. Hell, it's not to even say that he hasn't. It's about the people who voted for Trump and who continue to be mocked and ignored. Trump is a big FU to every condescending media member, politician, or public figurehead who has ignored the working class and painted them as xenophobic monsters for too long.
Great President or Greatest President?

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:38 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
leashyourkids wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
America wrote:
One day the only public union left will be police and the libs are not going to be happy about it.

when you first began posting you were a "big time eff the man" guy.

now you're just a "ya gotta piss off the libs" even if it means bending down, grabbing my ankles and taking it as usual from the man

what changed


One day, you are going to realize that Trump is the anti-establishment politician. That's not to say he doesn't have advisers who have done well from our system. Hell, it's not to even say that he hasn't. It's about the people who voted for Trump and who continue to be mocked and ignored. Trump is a big FU to every condescending media member, politician, or public figurehead who has ignored the working class and painted them as xenophobic monsters for too long.
Great President or Greatest President?


Put me down for greatest.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:49 am 
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conns7901 wrote:
So is the long game here is when a majority stop paying dues the state can come in and easily slash pay?



Yes

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:51 am 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
America wrote:
One day the only public union left will be police and the libs are not going to be happy about it.

when you first began posting you were a "big time eff the man" guy.

now you're just a "ya gotta piss off the libs" even if it means bending down, grabbing my ankles and taking it as usual from the man

what changed


One day, you are going to realize that Trump is the anti-establishment politician. That's not to say he doesn't have advisers who have done well from our system. Hell, it's not to even say that he hasn't. It's about the people who voted for Trump and who continue to be mocked and ignored. Trump is a big FU to every condescending media member, politician, or public figurehead who has ignored the working class and painted them as xenophobic monsters for too long.



Many working class people I see on my FB feed fit this exactly. Not a scientific poll but it is what it is.

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