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chaspoppcap
 Post subject: Re: Ameya Pawar
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:18 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
No, the "right" thing to do is to force able bodied people to work for a living and only to take people on welfare of any kind that genuinely need help. Helping truly needy people is a noble and good thing. But giving people free money to go out and buy drugs and booze and gamble away or spend foolishly is dumb.


But who defines "needy"? And what to do when millions of jobs are automated?


There is a program here in the QCA that you get 2 bags of groceries if you are needy but you need to put in a set amount of hours per month in work. Like cleaning up the streets and such. When the New Deal started that was a major component of the plan, It was tied to doing something for your aid. It was not until the 60s that it was removed.

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Zippy-The-Pinhead
 Post subject: Re: Ameya Pawar
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:52 pm 
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The Hawk wrote:
No, the "right" thing to do is to force able bodied people to work for a living and only to take people on welfare of any kind that genuinely need help. Helping truly needy people is a noble and good thing. But giving people free money to go out and buy drugs and booze and gamble away or spend foolishly is dumb.
I do appreciate that you separated the 1st 3 vices from the spending foolishly label :drunken:

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Darkside
 Post subject: Re: Ameya Pawar
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:08 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
No, the "right" thing to do is to force able bodied people to work for a living and only to take people on welfare of any kind that genuinely need help. Helping truly needy people is a noble and good thing. But giving people free money to go out and buy drugs and booze and gamble away or spend foolishly is dumb.


But who defines "needy"? And what to do when millions of jobs are automated?

When you lose your job putting caps on toothpaste tubes because its automated you should learn to fix the machines that put the caps on toothpaste tubes. This is an old story.

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Zippy-The-Pinhead
 Post subject: Re: Ameya Pawar
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:22 am 
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Darkside wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
No, the "right" thing to do is to force able bodied people to work for a living and only to take people on welfare of any kind that genuinely need help. Helping truly needy people is a noble and good thing. But giving people free money to go out and buy drugs and booze and gamble away or spend foolishly is dumb.


But who defines "needy"? And what to do when millions of jobs are automated?

When you lose your job putting caps on toothpaste tubes because its automated you should learn to fix the machines that put the caps on toothpaste tubes. This is an old story.

That’s fine in the context of a parable but real life doesn’t work that way. If the machine putting caps on the tubes replaced 10 guys there would still be 9 guys out of a job.

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Darkside
 Post subject: Re: Ameya Pawar
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:26 am 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Darkside wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
No, the "right" thing to do is to force able bodied people to work for a living and only to take people on welfare of any kind that genuinely need help. Helping truly needy people is a noble and good thing. But giving people free money to go out and buy drugs and booze and gamble away or spend foolishly is dumb.


But who defines "needy"? And what to do when millions of jobs are automated?

When you lose your job putting caps on toothpaste tubes because its automated you should learn to fix the machines that put the caps on toothpaste tubes. This is an old story.

That’s fine in the context of a parable but real life doesn’t work that way. If the machine putting caps on the tubes replaced 10 guys there would still be 9 guys out of a job.

This has been the narrative since the industrial revolution and it's still not the case.

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JORR
 Post subject: Re: Ameya Pawar
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:45 am 
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Regular Reader wrote:
Ogie Oglethorpe wrote:
Don Tiny wrote:
I believe I heard a soundbite on WGN News this morning where he said of course the city can't afford something like this and that they're looking to do this via philanthropic endeavors, so some of you can perhaps rest your sphincters for the time being.

I'm actually serious in my assertion that if we are going to have some sort of welfare program, then a NIT should be implemented and every other welfare program should be canceled in its place. I suggest reading Friedman's Capitalism and Freedom, published in 1962. At least read chapter 12 as that is where he addresses it (although the rest of the book is fantastic as well)


I'm sorry, but imo Milton Friedman and his Chicago boys have a lot to blame with the world's economic woes & political instability and shouldn't be taken seriously. The damage they did starting in Chile, here in the 80's and in Yeltsin's Russia showed how cynical the underpinnings are for the fraud known as classical libertarianism.



Pretty great to see him spin Michael Moore in a circle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb7Fi8I-qOk

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The Hawk
 Post subject: Re: Ameya Pawar
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:50 am 
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chaspoppcap wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
No, the "right" thing to do is to force able bodied people to work for a living and only to take people on welfare of any kind that genuinely need help. Helping truly needy people is a noble and good thing. But giving people free money to go out and buy drugs and booze and gamble away or spend foolishly is dumb.


But who defines "needy"? And what to do when millions of jobs are automated?


There is a program here in the QCA that you get 2 bags of groceries if you are needy but you need to put in a set amount of hours per month in work. Like cleaning up the streets and such. When the New Deal started that was a major component of the plan, It was tied to doing something for your aid. It was not until the 60s that it was removed.


I think that sort of thing is the way it should work. There is nothing wrong for requiring people to work.

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The Hawk
 Post subject: Re: Ameya Pawar
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:54 am 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
No, the "right" thing to do is to force able bodied people to work for a living and only to take people on welfare of any kind that genuinely need help. Helping truly needy people is a noble and good thing. But giving people free money to go out and buy drugs and booze and gamble away or spend foolishly is dumb.

I do appreciate that you separated the 1st 3 vices from the spending foolishly label :drunken:


Maybe people receiving welfare of any kind should not be buying expensive TVs, clothes, jewelry and such? Maybe someone should introduce a BUDGET as a concept for them to use.

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Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
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The Hawk
 Post subject: Re: Ameya Pawar
PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:59 am 
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Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Darkside wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
The Hawk wrote:
No, the "right" thing to do is to force able bodied people to work for a living and only to take people on welfare of any kind that genuinely need help. Helping truly needy people is a noble and good thing. But giving people free money to go out and buy drugs and booze and gamble away or spend foolishly is dumb.


But who defines "needy"? And what to do when millions of jobs are automated?


When you lose your job putting caps on toothpaste tubes because its automated you should learn to fix the machines that put the caps on toothpaste tubes. This is an old story.


That’s fine in the context of a parable but real life doesn’t work that way. If the machine putting caps on the tubes replaced 10 guys there would still be 9 guys out of a job.


No, Zippy. His point was well taken. People need to take control of their own lives including investing in themselves as in getting training in fields that will survive automation.

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Oh, he might have went on livin'
But he made one fatal slip
When he tried to match the Ranger
With the big iron on his hip
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