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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:54 pm 
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I think we can all agree that once people can see doctors, they'll never stop. When I pass by hospitals I press my face up against the glass and look forlorn, like a little kid in a Norman Rockwell painting, just thinking about all the physical therapy I could be enduring or the IVs I could be hooked up to. If you tell people it's okay to get cancer now because Job Creators will pay for the super-fun chemotherapy, they're gonna go get cancer. I'm gonna smoke a pack, sit on a microwave, and drink a glowstick. I've been incentivized to get cancer. It's gonna be free and radical.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:58 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
pittmike wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Thank you for your thoughtful response to where I said I didn't want communism because it doesn't work and people don't really want it.


Idk what to tell you. I am not with you on the Medicare for all idea. I haven’t yet seen the sensible explanation I demand. Note I did. It say I am against in theory. Just that your pie in the sky desire needs more work.

What is your ideal healthcare system? Obamacare? Obamacare with public option? Everyone just does whatever and if they can't afford good insurance they're dicked?


What I know is it has to be one or the other not both. Hypothetically if they got rid of the insurance model, some lawyer control as well as regulate drugs better we could get closer to the old days. People could actually pay for their service and get what they pay for.

Of course this will never happen. I still want a place where a hospital Tylenol is not $300 and when a kid is born you pay $500 when you leave and it’s done.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I think we can all agree that once people can see doctors, they'll never stop. When I pass by hospitals I press my face up against the glass and look forlorn, like a little kid in a Norman Rockwell painting, just thinking about all the physical therapy I could be enduring or the IVs I could be hooked up to. If you tell people it's okay to get cancer now because Job Creators will pay for the super-fun chemotherapy, they're gonna go get cancer. I'm gonna smoke a pack, sit on a microwave, and drink a glowstick. I've been incentivized to get cancer. It's gonna be free and radical.



There are "doctor people" and "non doctor people". I don't think money has much to do with it. I have Cadillac insurance and I might not go to the hospital if my arm was half cut off unless my wife dragged me. I have friends who run to urgent care if they have a hangnail.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:59 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
I still want a place where a hospital Tylenol is not $300 and when a kid is born you pay $500 when you leave and it’s done.

The most likely way to get this is Medicare For All with modest co-pays.

Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
There are "doctor people" and "non doctor people". I don't think money has much to do with it. I have Cadillac insurance and I might not to to the hospital if my arm was half cut off unless my wife dragged me. I have friends who run to urgent care if they have a hangnail.

Yeah, I'm definitely not a doctor person, either. But I'd like to become a doctor person if I ever get hit by a car or have my appendix rupture. I would not like exorbitant medical bills for bad luck.

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Last edited by Curious Hair on Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:00 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I think we can all agree that once people can see doctors, they'll never stop. When I pass by hospitals I press my face up against the glass and look forlorn, like a little kid in a Norman Rockwell painting, just thinking about all the physical therapy I could be enduring or the IVs I could be hooked up to. If you tell people it's okay to get cancer now because Job Creators will pay for the super-fun chemotherapy, they're gonna go get cancer. I'm gonna smoke a pack, sit on a microwave, and drink a glowstick. I've been incentivized to get cancer. It's gonna be free and radical.


I waffle on this issue constantly, so I can't tell you what my ideal is, but your characterization is wrong. People aren't dying in the streets in America. Kids in particular are generally given health care for free from private donations.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:01 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
I still want a place where a hospital Tylenol is not $300 and when a kid is born you pay $500 when you leave and it’s done.

It sounds like you want the D-student doctors.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:01 pm 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
I think we can all agree that once people can see doctors, they'll never stop. When I pass by hospitals I press my face up against the glass and look forlorn, like a little kid in a Norman Rockwell painting, just thinking about all the physical therapy I could be enduring or the IVs I could be hooked up to. If you tell people it's okay to get cancer now because Job Creators will pay for the super-fun chemotherapy, they're gonna go get cancer. I'm gonna smoke a pack, sit on a microwave, and drink a glowstick. I've been incentivized to get cancer. It's gonna be free and radical.



There are "doctor people" and "non doctor people". I don't think money has much to do with it. I have Cadillac insurance and I might not go to the hospital if my arm was half cut off unless my wife dragged me. I have friends who run to urgent care if they have a hangnail.


In grown toe nails are no joke, asshole.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:02 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
I think we can all agree that once people can see doctors, they'll never stop. When I pass by hospitals I press my face up against the glass and look forlorn, like a little kid in a Norman Rockwell painting, just thinking about all the physical therapy I could be enduring or the IVs I could be hooked up to. If you tell people it's okay to get cancer now because Job Creators will pay for the super-fun chemotherapy, they're gonna go get cancer. I'm gonna smoke a pack, sit on a microwave, and drink a glowstick. I've been incentivized to get cancer. It's gonna be free and radical.



There are "doctor people" and "non doctor people". I don't think money has much to do with it. I have Cadillac insurance and I might not go to the hospital if my arm was half cut off unless my wife dragged me. I have friends who run to urgent care if they have a hangnail.


In grown toe nails are no joke, asshole.


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:20 pm 
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leashyourkids wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
I think we can all agree that once people can see doctors, they'll never stop. When I pass by hospitals I press my face up against the glass and look forlorn, like a little kid in a Norman Rockwell painting, just thinking about all the physical therapy I could be enduring or the IVs I could be hooked up to. If you tell people it's okay to get cancer now because Job Creators will pay for the super-fun chemotherapy, they're gonna go get cancer. I'm gonna smoke a pack, sit on a microwave, and drink a glowstick. I've been incentivized to get cancer. It's gonna be free and radical.



There are "doctor people" and "non doctor people". I don't think money has much to do with it. I have Cadillac insurance and I might not go to the hospital if my arm was half cut off unless my wife dragged me. I have friends who run to urgent care if they have a hangnail.


In grown toe nails are no joke, asshole.

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:23 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
I think we can all agree that once people can see doctors, they'll never stop. When I pass by hospitals I press my face up against the glass and look forlorn, like a little kid in a Norman Rockwell painting, just thinking about all the physical therapy I could be enduring or the IVs I could be hooked up to. If you tell people it's okay to get cancer now because Job Creators will pay for the super-fun chemotherapy, they're gonna go get cancer. I'm gonna smoke a pack, sit on a microwave, and drink a glowstick. I've been incentivized to get cancer. It's gonna be free and radical.


If the use free and radical was intentional in a cancer sense, then that is a rock solid sentence right there.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:33 pm 
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The US spends almost 2x as much (as a percentage of GDP) on health care as most first-world nations yet somehow we rank 26th (out of 35 nations studied) in life expectancy and dead-last in a recent-ish study of infant immortality among the top 20 OECD nations. Doesn't seem like we're getting our money's worth.

Quote:
America's lagging performance in health outcomes has resulted in at least 600,000 excess deaths, a new study suggests

A new study of 20 of the world's richest countries found it's dangerous to be born into the United States.

The U.S. ranks last in child health outcomes compared to 19 other Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development nations with similar levels of economic development and political structures, including Australia, Canada, France, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom, according to the study published in Health Affairs, a peer-reviewed health care journal.

In fact, a child born in the U.S. is 76 percent more likely to die before their first birthday than infants born in other wealthy countries, and children who survive infancy have a 57 percent greater risk of death before reaching adulthood. The findings – based on a 50-year time-trend analysis from 1960 to 2010 – come despite America's greater per capita spending on health care for children, the study notes.


Image

Lower life expectancy might be attributable to our violent and automobile-centric society (and McDonald's). But the infant mortality thing seems inexcusable.


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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:49 pm 
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Our healthcare system is a mess. Almost anything would be better. Doctors hate it. They hate the billing, fear being sued, and almost all report being overworked. Their rates of depression and suicide are one of the huge unspoken tales of becoming a doctor. (Doctors also know what it's like to die slowly in old age.) Medical error is also likely the leading cause of death in the country. It's just under reported.

Some of the most popular content in the past couple of years in my circles have been confessional letters of doctors saying they are burned out or that they feel like frauds. The influence of pharma and medical device companies on our system is incredible and growing. They are also pouring money into data acquisition to influence doctors.

The cancer drug you get is likely the one the doctor knows best or has been paid to promote. The disclosures on some of these guys and girls are incredible. I've seen doctors getting hundreds of thousands from as many as 17 different companies. Most of the guys at that level have gone on to research, but yeah, I am not a doctor person unless it's for something I have no hope of curing on my own.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:57 pm 
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If you get a cancer diagnosis and are prescribed chemotherapy, get a 2nd and even a 3rd opinion. Oncologists make bank off of chemo. Just because you have cancer doesn't mean you need chemo. And you might find out that you don't have cancer at all.

https://www.cnn.com/2015/07/10/us/michi ... index.html

Quote:
Treated, but not sick
Robert Sobieray went to Fata and was given chemotherapy treatments for two and a half years. But he never had cancer.
"It just gets to me," Sobieray said. "What was the motivation? Why, why me? I don't know what did I ever do to him."
The chemotherapy treatments were painful, and made him physically sick. They were so strong that his teeth fell out and his jaw started to change shape. Years after finding out he didn't have cancer, he has lost all but one of his teeth.
"With all the bills piling up, I can't afford to get new teeth," Sobieray said. "(I) would like to eat a good meal again someday. Like salad, used to love eating salad. I can't eat that anymore. A lot of things I love I can't eat anymore."

Patty Hester went to Fata in 2010 after being recommended by another doctor. Her white blood cell counts were low, and Fata was a renowned hematologist and oncologist.
"He was, according to the web page, and according to the fliers, he's world-renowned," Hester said. "When you went in his office, he was top doc."
Hester, who worked in an emergency room at the time, was devastated when Fata told her she had myelodysplastic syndrome (MDS).
"He said, 'You need to start on chemo, like, immediately,'" Hester recalled.
She was in disbelief. And after debating with Fata, he instead put her on iron treatments and, eventually, blood plasma treatments. She was still taking those pricey plasma treatments the day co-workers made her come to the TV and see the news: her doctor had been arrested.
Hester did not have cancer.

Some of Fata's patients did have various forms of cancer.

Chris Sneary faced Fata for the first time since his former doctor's arrest on Tuesday as he read his victim impact statement in court. He turned to glance at Fata, took a deep breath and read his story.
Sneary came to Fata to be treated for testicular cancer from 2010 to 2013. He had 40 days of chemotherapy, 14 days of hydration therapy and dozens of other treatments and procedures.
"I gave full and total trust to this man to get me and my family through this journey I was about to begin," Sneary said.
Sneary discovered after Fata's arrest that he'd been given "gross overtreatment" -- more expensive and harsh chemotherapy than was necessary and, worse, he had a testicle removed that was medically unnecessary.


Last edited by Hussra on Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:09 pm 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Our healthcare system is a mess. Almost anything would be better. Doctors hate it. They hate the billing, fear being sued, and almost all report being overworked. Their rates of depression and suicide are one of the huge unspoken tales of becoming a doctor. (Doctors also know what it's like to die slowly in old age.) Medical error is also likely the leading cause of death in the country. It's just under reported.

Some of the most popular content in the past couple of years in my circles have been confessional letters of doctors saying they are burned out or that they feel like frauds. The influence of pharma and medical device companies on our system is incredible and growing. They are also pouring money into data acquisition to influence doctors.

The cancer drug you get is likely the one the doctor knows best or has been paid to promote. The disclosures on some of these guys and girls are incredible. I've seen doctors getting hundreds of thousands from as many as 17 different companies. Most of the guys at that level have gone on to research, but yeah, I am not a doctor person unless it's for something I have no hope of curing on my own.


A few years ago my brother talked about walking away from it 10-15 years in. His wife was looking at a job in another state and I think he secretly wanted to move so he could go part time and do something else. The paper work is insane.


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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:10 pm 
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A key liberal argument against healthcare reform is that most people who work in medical billing are women, and to reform the system would be to take jobs away from women. Do you...hate...women?

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:06 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
A key liberal argument against healthcare reform is that most people who work in medical billing are women, and to reform the system would be to take jobs away from women. Do you...hate...women?


They can go work at Sportclips.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:15 pm 
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Hussra wrote:
The US spends almost 2x as much (as a percentage of GDP) on health care as most first-world nations yet somehow we rank 26th (out of 35 nations studied) in life expectancy and dead-last in a recent-ish study of infant immortality among the top 20 OECD nations. Doesn't seem like we're getting our money's worth.

Quote:
America's lagging performance in health outcomes has resulted in at least 600,000 excess deaths, a new study suggests

A new study of 20 of the world's richest countries found it's dangerous to be born into the United States.

The U.S. ranks last in child health outcomes compared to 19 other Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development nations with similar levels of economic development and political structures, including Australia, Canada, France, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom, according to the study published in Health Affairs, a peer-reviewed health care journal.

In fact, a child born in the U.S. is 76 percent more likely to die before their first birthday than infants born in other wealthy countries, and children who survive infancy have a 57 percent greater risk of death before reaching adulthood. The findings – based on a 50-year time-trend analysis from 1960 to 2010 – come despite America's greater per capita spending on health care for children, the study notes.


Image

Lower life expectancy might be attributable to our violent and automobile-centric society (and McDonald's). But the infant mortality thing seems inexcusable.

We have more poor people and for whatever reason they tend to not make good decisions about their health.


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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:27 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
A key liberal argument against healthcare reform is that most people who work in medical billing are women, and to reform the system would be to take jobs away from women. Do you...hate...women?


Just a part of the great necessary unraveling that no one really wants to do. They do like to scream for healthcare though.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:28 am 
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SpiralStairs wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
A key liberal argument against healthcare reform is that most people who work in medical billing are women, and to reform the system would be to take jobs away from women. Do you...hate...women?


They can go work at Sportclips.


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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:30 am 
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tommy wrote:
We have more poor people and for whatever reason they tend to not make good decisions about their health.


Don't worry. Just send them to the doctor. They will be there on time and do everything the doctor, then nutritional specialist instructs them to. They they will begin the Wilmfred Brimley protocol.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:36 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
A key liberal argument against healthcare reform is that most people who work in medical billing are women, and to reform the system would be to take jobs away from women. Do you...hate...women?


Entry into medical billing is an incredible racket. Career Education Corp built several online colleges selling an Associate’s in Medical billing. The degree cost $27,000, and had around a 3 percent graduation rate. But if you are a single mom whose options are work at home doing billing for $15/hr or work at a gas station you go for it. Of course without knowing the full price or the chances of graduating.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:52 am 
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WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Entry into medical billing is an incredible racket. Career Education Corp built several online colleges selling an Associate’s in Medical billing. The degree cost $27,000, and had around a 3 percent graduation rate. But if you are a single mom whose options are work at home doing billing for $15/hr or work at a gas station you go for it. Of course without knowing the full price or the chances of graduating.

If our Department of Education couldn't stand in the way of predatory bullshit like this, maybe we don't need it after all.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:57 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
WaitingforRuffcorn wrote:
Entry into medical billing is an incredible racket. Career Education Corp built several online colleges selling an Associate’s in Medical billing. The degree cost $27,000, and had around a 3 percent graduation rate. But if you are a single mom whose options are work at home doing billing for $15/hr or work at a gas station you go for it. Of course without knowing the full price or the chances of graduating.

If our Department of Education couldn't stand in the way of predatory bullshit like this, maybe we don't need it after all.



I have an ex-girlfriend who I really like a lot. She's a nice person. But this is what I'm taking about with the phony bullshit. She's constantly posting hard Left pussy hat crap on social media, but she works in marketing for a for-profit "university". Man, is there anything more despicable than a for-profit "university"? I mean, I know we all need big screens, iPhones, and SUVs, but maybe you want to lie low when you're living in that glass house.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:59 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Man, is there anything more despicable than a for-profit "university"?


For-profit healthcare.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:59 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Man, is there anything more despicable than a for-profit "university"?


For-profit healthcare.


:lol: Why don't you go get your medical degree and I'll let you look up my asshole for free?

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:01 am 
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Hussra wrote:
The US spends almost 2x as much (as a percentage of GDP) on health care as most first-world nations yet somehow we rank 26th (out of 35 nations studied) in life expectancy and dead-last in a recent-ish study of infant immortality among the top 20 OECD nations. Doesn't seem like we're getting our money's worth.

Quote:
America's lagging performance in health outcomes has resulted in at least 600,000 excess deaths, a new study suggests

A new study of 20 of the world's richest countries found it's dangerous to be born into the United States.

The U.S. ranks last in child health outcomes compared to 19 other Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development nations with similar levels of economic development and political structures, including Australia, Canada, France, Sweden, Switzerland and the United Kingdom, according to the study published in Health Affairs, a peer-reviewed health care journal.

In fact, a child born in the U.S. is 76 percent more likely to die before their first birthday than infants born in other wealthy countries, and children who survive infancy have a 57 percent greater risk of death before reaching adulthood. The findings – based on a 50-year time-trend analysis from 1960 to 2010 – come despite America's greater per capita spending on health care for children, the study notes.


Image

Lower life expectancy might be attributable to our violent and automobile-centric society (and McDonald's). But the infant mortality thing seems inexcusable.

Opioid abuse is the largest contributor right now to our lower life expectancy.

As for infant mortality, the problem is different countries have different definitions on what constitutes a live birth. In the US, we count a single breath taken as a live birth while many Western European countries use a looser standard that only count children deemed viable after birth as live births.

More info on how countries count live births can be gained from reading this:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/physicians ... c7841731f0

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:04 am 
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Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Man, is there anything more despicable than a for-profit "university"?


For-profit healthcare.


:lol: Why don't you go get your medical degree and I'll let you look up my asshole for free?


Eww.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:05 am 
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Terry's Peeps wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Terry's Peeps wrote:
Joe Orr Road Rod wrote:
Man, is there anything more despicable than a for-profit "university"?


For-profit healthcare.


:lol: Why don't you go get your medical degree and I'll let you look up my asshole for free?


Eww.



At least I didn't ask you to look at an in-grown toenail.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:06 am 
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Now that our search function's up and running again, I can look up assholes all day.

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 Post subject: Re: Medicare for all
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:10 am 
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Another cause for the drop in life expectancy that has not been mentioned much is an increase in alcohol abuse.

Cirrhosis is up over 65% in people under 40. Heck, I'm 30 and someone I went to high school with is currently suffering end stage liver failure due to alcohol abuse.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to- ... 40d3de98f3

A lot of people are making poor life decisions and the results are tragic

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