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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:27 am 
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IMU wrote:
We should simplify this. No more bonuses or guarantees.


You have to have guaranteed money with voidable contracts. Otherwise, it's just at will employment.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:28 am 
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denisdman wrote:
IMU wrote:
We should simplify this. No more bonuses or guarantees.


You have to have guaranteed money with voidable contracts. Otherwise, it's just at will employment.

Sounds really good.

If any sport yearns for at will employment, it is the NFL.

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Last edited by IMU on Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:28 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
If I was the Bears I would give him a take it or leave it offer expiring in 3 days. If he doesn't take it the Bears will let him rot a year in the CFL and he can enjoy being a 4th round pick next year losing tens of millions of dollars.


Bob this is foolish. This is a negotiation. The kid has a right to ask for anything and the organization can say no. This isn't a good dolphin review. :wink: The Bears aren't going to forfeit a first round pick and this kid isn't going to sit out the season.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:29 am 
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Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
If I was the Bears I would give him a take it or leave it offer expiring in 3 days. If he doesn't take it the Bears will let him rot a year in the CFL and he can enjoy being a 4th round pick next year losing tens of millions of dollars.


Bob this is foolish. This is a negotiation. The kid has a right to ask for anything and the organization can say no. This isn't a good dolphin review. :wink: The Bears aren't going to forfeit a first round pick and this kid isn't going to sit out the season.


Bears need to remind Hen who the Rooster is.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:30 am 
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If this was a white player, Nas would feel differently.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:30 am 
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:lol: Some of the comments in here are great. Smith not being at camp right now is 100% on the Bears

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:30 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Think Aaron Hernandez here.

IF it's true that he is not signing because of hold backs based upon HIS personal behavior...than that is a tire fire, not a red flag.

In an Aaron Hernandez situation, any future money owed becomes irrelevant just like if he had retired.


Try to read what happened there before making a comment.

Thanks.

What do you mean?

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/patriots/2017/04/20/aaron-hernandez-estate-not-likely-collect-more-money-from-patriots/q1lDGaTyyElNoSBAHwSgJM/story.html
Quote:
When Hernandez was arrested for Lloyd’s murder in June 2013, the Patriots released him and refused to pay the remaining guaranteed money — a $3.25 million deferred signing bonus payment, and base salaries of $1.323 million and $1.137 million. They also declined to pay a $82,000 workout bonus that he had earned in June 2013.


What didn't I read? When he was arrested, no future money was paid out.



Should I post step by step instructions on how to find this...

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... hernandez/

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:31 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
:lol: Some of the comments in here are great. Smith not being at camp right now is 100% on the Bears


As usual, you have no clue what you are talking about. He's asking for provisions no rookie has asked for.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:32 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
I will say, I think the Bears did drop the ball by not looking into his past as a militant trouble maker. Mediocre player, terrible human being

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2018/ ... t-nfl-2018

Quote:
So while Smith “committed” to UCLA, he never signed a letter of intent to play there. He never gave away his recruiting rights and embroiled himself in that mess. He only signed a financial aid agreement that contained full scholarship guarantees. Scholarship guarantees that effectively offered the same benefits a letter of intent did that athletes like him wanted, but without the harmful punitive language. That would later free Smith to back out of his commitment to UCLA as he had no outstanding ties to the Bruins, and eventually attend Georgia where he would become college football’s top linebacker and a top 10 NFL draft pick four years later.


Quote:
The Bears have continually insisted they don’t want to set a precedent in negotiations with Smith. Yet according to the past, the young man they’re negotiating with appears to want to do nothing but set a new precedent.


We drafted an "Activist" not a football player.


Sounds like a really smart business man and a potentially great player.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:33 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
:lol: Some of the comments in here are great. Smith not being at camp right now is 100% on the Bears


We 100% don't know that Sir Troll A Lot. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:33 am 
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pittmike wrote:
At any rate while in principal you should not go back after bonus it seems the NFL would due better to redefine or structure these differently. Without going after bonus already paid they have little protection. Not that I care but very little pay is able to be fined for suspension or recovery.
I don't think that is going to be an effective deterrent though. I doubt many players are going to commit serious crimes because they only lose a little of their total contract.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:33 am 
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FavreFan wrote:
:lol: Some of the comments in here are great. Smith not being at camp right now is 100% on the Bears


Of course FF with the command for management to roll over. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:34 am 
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Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
I will say, I think the Bears did drop the ball by not looking into his past as a militant trouble maker. Mediocre player, terrible human being

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2018/ ... t-nfl-2018

Quote:
So while Smith “committed” to UCLA, he never signed a letter of intent to play there. He never gave away his recruiting rights and embroiled himself in that mess. He only signed a financial aid agreement that contained full scholarship guarantees. Scholarship guarantees that effectively offered the same benefits a letter of intent did that athletes like him wanted, but without the harmful punitive language. That would later free Smith to back out of his commitment to UCLA as he had no outstanding ties to the Bruins, and eventually attend Georgia where he would become college football’s top linebacker and a top 10 NFL draft pick four years later.


Quote:
The Bears have continually insisted they don’t want to set a precedent in negotiations with Smith. Yet according to the past, the young man they’re negotiating with appears to want to do nothing but set a new precedent.


We drafted an "Activist" not a football player.


Sounds like a really smart business man and a potentially great player.


Looks like his aspirations for being a really smart businessman(activist) will conflict with him being a great football player. Michael Haynes was a great veterinarian.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:35 am 
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Boilermaker Rick wrote:
pittmike wrote:
At any rate while in principal you should not go back after bonus it seems the NFL would due better to redefine or structure these differently. Without going after bonus already paid they have little protection. Not that I care but very little pay is able to be fined for suspension or recovery.
I don't think that is going to be an effective deterrent though. I doubt many players are going to commit serious crimes because they only lose a little of their total contract.


Well as we do not know the exact hold up here (per many on the radio) I am not limiting my thoughts to serious crime. You can be suspended by the NFL for many things that have little to do with sense.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:37 am 
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IMU wrote:
If this was a white player, Nas would feel differently.


:lol: :lol: :lol: I'll never oppose a player's right to negotiate. Especially in the NFL. MANY people arguing against Smith are business owners and they would NEVER just take what someone offers them and forfeit their right to negotiate.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:38 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
I will say, I think the Bears did drop the ball by not looking into his past as a militant trouble maker. Mediocre player, terrible human being

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2018/ ... t-nfl-2018

Quote:
So while Smith “committed” to UCLA, he never signed a letter of intent to play there. He never gave away his recruiting rights and embroiled himself in that mess. He only signed a financial aid agreement that contained full scholarship guarantees. Scholarship guarantees that effectively offered the same benefits a letter of intent did that athletes like him wanted, but without the harmful punitive language. That would later free Smith to back out of his commitment to UCLA as he had no outstanding ties to the Bruins, and eventually attend Georgia where he would become college football’s top linebacker and a top 10 NFL draft pick four years later.


Quote:
The Bears have continually insisted they don’t want to set a precedent in negotiations with Smith. Yet according to the past, the young man they’re negotiating with appears to want to do nothing but set a new precedent.


We drafted an "Activist" not a football player.


Sounds like a really smart business man and a potentially great player.


Looks like his aspirations for being a really smart businessman(activist) will conflict with him being a great football player. Michael Haynes was a great veterinarian.


No one but the Bears thought he would be a great football player.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:39 am 
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Nas wrote:
IMU wrote:
If this was a white player, Nas would feel differently.


:lol: :lol: :lol: I'll never oppose a player's right to negotiate. Especially in the NFL. MANY people arguing against Smith are business owners and they would NEVER just take what someone offers them and forfeit their right to negotiate.


The thing is, his(NoQuan's) cause is most definelty a noble one, I just don't give a fuck. As a fan, I want the player on the field producing. On a personal level, I could give two shits about them.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:45 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
Nas wrote:
IMU wrote:
If this was a white player, Nas would feel differently.


:lol: :lol: :lol: I'll never oppose a player's right to negotiate. Especially in the NFL. MANY people arguing against Smith are business owners and they would NEVER just take what someone offers them and forfeit their right to negotiate.


The thing is, his(NoQuan's) cause is most definelty a noble one, I just don't give a fuck. As a fan, I want the player on the field producing. On a personal level, I could give two shits about them.


As a fan I completely understand. I personally only care about how well he plays. If he sucks I will hate him regardless of if he were the first or last player to sign.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:50 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Boilermaker Rick wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Think Aaron Hernandez here.

IF it's true that he is not signing because of hold backs based upon HIS personal behavior...than that is a tire fire, not a red flag.

In an Aaron Hernandez situation, any future money owed becomes irrelevant just like if he had retired.


Try to read what happened there before making a comment.

Thanks.

What do you mean?

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/patriots/2017/04/20/aaron-hernandez-estate-not-likely-collect-more-money-from-patriots/q1lDGaTyyElNoSBAHwSgJM/story.html
Quote:
When Hernandez was arrested for Lloyd’s murder in June 2013, the Patriots released him and refused to pay the remaining guaranteed money — a $3.25 million deferred signing bonus payment, and base salaries of $1.323 million and $1.137 million. They also declined to pay a $82,000 workout bonus that he had earned in June 2013.


What didn't I read? When he was arrested, no future money was paid out.



Should I post step by step instructions on how to find this...

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... hernandez/

What is there to find? The Patriots released him and refused to pay any money owed just like I said. There is an obscure law in the state of Massachusetts that gives his estate a very small chance of getting those funds but it's considered virtually impossible to the point that they still haven't even attempted to get that money.

With that said, this player would not be subject to that since it's a different state.

So, this is where you admit you were wrong.

In fact, I will wager you $100 that the Patriots never have to pay the money he was owed on the rest of the Aaron Hernandez contract.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:52 am 
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Nas wrote:
IMU wrote:
If this was a white player, Nas would feel differently.


:lol: :lol: :lol: I'll never oppose a player's right to negotiate. Especially in the NFL. MANY people arguing against Smith are business owners and they would NEVER just take what someone offers them and forfeit their right to negotiate.

Smith did not forfeit his right to negotiate. He negotiated. And lost. You don't always get your demands in a negotiation. Sign the contract and get into camp. Unless maybe he is just LAZY?!?!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 10:58 am 
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IMU wrote:
Nas wrote:
IMU wrote:
If this was a white player, Nas would feel differently.


:lol: :lol: :lol: I'll never oppose a player's right to negotiate. Especially in the NFL. MANY people arguing against Smith are business owners and they would NEVER just take what someone offers them and forfeit their right to negotiate.

Smith did not forfeit his right to negotiate. He negotiated. And lost. You don't always get your demands in a negotiation. Sign the contract and get into camp. Unless maybe he is just LAZY?!?!


It's not over until the ink dries!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:08 am 
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Nas wrote:
IMU wrote:
Nas wrote:
IMU wrote:
If this was a white player, Nas would feel differently.


:lol: :lol: :lol: I'll never oppose a player's right to negotiate. Especially in the NFL. MANY people arguing against Smith are business owners and they would NEVER just take what someone offers them and forfeit their right to negotiate.

Smith did not forfeit his right to negotiate. He negotiated. And lost. You don't always get your demands in a negotiation. Sign the contract and get into camp. Unless maybe he is just LAZY?!?!


It's not over until the ink dries!


:lol:

Sounds like that is what Smith told UCLA.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:23 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Nas wrote:
IMU wrote:
Nas wrote:
IMU wrote:
If this was a white player, Nas would feel differently.


:lol: :lol: :lol: I'll never oppose a player's right to negotiate. Especially in the NFL. MANY people arguing against Smith are business owners and they would NEVER just take what someone offers them and forfeit their right to negotiate.

Smith did not forfeit his right to negotiate. He negotiated. And lost. You don't always get your demands in a negotiation. Sign the contract and get into camp. Unless maybe he is just LAZY?!?!


It's not over until the ink dries!


:lol:

Sounds like that is what Smith told UCLA.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:25 am 
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Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
If I was the Bears I would give him a take it or leave it offer expiring in 3 days. If he doesn't take it the Bears will let him rot a year in the CFL and he can enjoy being a 4th round pick next year losing tens of millions of dollars.


Bob this is foolish. This is a negotiation. The kid has a right to ask for anything and the organization can say no. This isn't a good dolphin review. :wink: The Bears aren't going to forfeit a first round pick and this kid isn't going to sit out the season.


She could have walked. There are no locks on the doors at dolphin, shark and stingray.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:29 am 
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Caller Bob wrote:
I will say, I think the Bears did drop the ball by not looking into his past as a militant trouble maker. Mediocre player, terrible human being

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2018/ ... t-nfl-2018

Quote:
So while Smith “committed” to UCLA, he never signed a letter of intent to play there. He never gave away his recruiting rights and embroiled himself in that mess. He only signed a financial aid agreement that contained full scholarship guarantees. Scholarship guarantees that effectively offered the same benefits a letter of intent did that athletes like him wanted, but without the harmful punitive language. That would later free Smith to back out of his commitment to UCLA as he had no outstanding ties to the Bruins, and eventually attend Georgia where he would become college football’s top linebacker and a top 10 NFL draft pick four years later.


Quote:
The Bears have continually insisted they don’t want to set a precedent in negotiations with Smith. Yet according to the past, the young man they’re negotiating with appears to want to do nothing but set a new precedent.


We drafted an "Activist" not a football player.


I wonder if him requiring language that the team will not attempt to take his money for personal conduct violations isn't being made with the ulterior motive being that he is going to take a stand, so to speak, on the national anthem policy when he finally signs.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:31 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
I will say, I think the Bears did drop the ball by not looking into his past as a militant trouble maker. Mediocre player, terrible human being

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2018/ ... t-nfl-2018

Quote:
So while Smith “committed” to UCLA, he never signed a letter of intent to play there. He never gave away his recruiting rights and embroiled himself in that mess. He only signed a financial aid agreement that contained full scholarship guarantees. Scholarship guarantees that effectively offered the same benefits a letter of intent did that athletes like him wanted, but without the harmful punitive language. That would later free Smith to back out of his commitment to UCLA as he had no outstanding ties to the Bruins, and eventually attend Georgia where he would become college football’s top linebacker and a top 10 NFL draft pick four years later.


Quote:
The Bears have continually insisted they don’t want to set a precedent in negotiations with Smith. Yet according to the past, the young man they’re negotiating with appears to want to do nothing but set a new precedent.


We drafted an "Activist" not a football player.


I wonder if him requiring language that the team will not attempt to take his money for personal conduct violations isn't being made with the ulterior motive being that he is going to take a stand, so to speak, on the national anthem policy when he finally signs.


Interesting theory. No great player has taken a knee IIRC.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:34 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
If I was the Bears I would give him a take it or leave it offer expiring in 3 days. If he doesn't take it the Bears will let him rot a year in the CFL and he can enjoy being a 4th round pick next year losing tens of millions of dollars.


Bob this is foolish. This is a negotiation. The kid has a right to ask for anything and the organization can say no. This isn't a good dolphin review. :wink: The Bears aren't going to forfeit a first round pick and this kid isn't going to sit out the season.


She could have walked. There are no locks on the doors at dolphin, shark and stingray.


She's building a discrimination case. Just about everyone is looking for a quick payday nowadays.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:47 am 
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Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
I will say, I think the Bears did drop the ball by not looking into his past as a militant trouble maker. Mediocre player, terrible human being

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2018/ ... t-nfl-2018

Quote:
So while Smith “committed” to UCLA, he never signed a letter of intent to play there. He never gave away his recruiting rights and embroiled himself in that mess. He only signed a financial aid agreement that contained full scholarship guarantees. Scholarship guarantees that effectively offered the same benefits a letter of intent did that athletes like him wanted, but without the harmful punitive language. That would later free Smith to back out of his commitment to UCLA as he had no outstanding ties to the Bruins, and eventually attend Georgia where he would become college football’s top linebacker and a top 10 NFL draft pick four years later.


Quote:
The Bears have continually insisted they don’t want to set a precedent in negotiations with Smith. Yet according to the past, the young man they’re negotiating with appears to want to do nothing but set a new precedent.


We drafted an "Activist" not a football player.


I wonder if him requiring language that the team will not attempt to take his money for personal conduct violations isn't being made with the ulterior motive being that he is going to take a stand, so to speak, on the national anthem policy when he finally signs.


Interesting theory. No great player has taken a knee IIRC.


He has to have more than a theoretical reason to want that language at this point.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:57 am 
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good dolphin wrote:
Nas wrote:
good dolphin wrote:
Caller Bob wrote:
I will say, I think the Bears did drop the ball by not looking into his past as a militant trouble maker. Mediocre player, terrible human being

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2018/ ... t-nfl-2018

Quote:
So while Smith “committed” to UCLA, he never signed a letter of intent to play there. He never gave away his recruiting rights and embroiled himself in that mess. He only signed a financial aid agreement that contained full scholarship guarantees. Scholarship guarantees that effectively offered the same benefits a letter of intent did that athletes like him wanted, but without the harmful punitive language. That would later free Smith to back out of his commitment to UCLA as he had no outstanding ties to the Bruins, and eventually attend Georgia where he would become college football’s top linebacker and a top 10 NFL draft pick four years later.


Quote:
The Bears have continually insisted they don’t want to set a precedent in negotiations with Smith. Yet according to the past, the young man they’re negotiating with appears to want to do nothing but set a new precedent.


We drafted an "Activist" not a football player.


I wonder if him requiring language that the team will not attempt to take his money for personal conduct violations isn't being made with the ulterior motive being that he is going to take a stand, so to speak, on the national anthem policy when he finally signs.


Interesting theory. No great player has taken a knee IIRC.


He has to have more than a theoretical reason to want that language at this point.


Is there anything in his history that says he's likely to cause problems? Not sure of his or his parents background but he seems like a guy who uses his leverage to make requests before signing. MANY have used leverage to force trades he is just using his leverage to try to protect his guarantees from the unknown.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Another classic Seacrest interaction. Condescendingly tell someone they need to read more. When presented with evidence they are wrong then double down on it. When that evidence proves false then just ignore that response.

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